Interviews Reviews Guest Stars Fanzine Misc
Showing posts with label Green Lantern. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Green Lantern. Show all posts

Monday, August 15, 2022

1989 Toy Biz DC Comics Super Heroes

As I have frequently harped about (and someday I'll even write an article about them), the Kenner Super Powers Collection action figures made a pretty strong impact during my formative years and most likely led to my die-hard love of DC comics during that era. Unfortunately, the last series of Kenner figures were released in 1986 and that was pretty much that. This was a shame because I was five years old at the time, and unless they were still on the shelves at my local department store there was no way I was going to be able to add more DC heroes/villains to my collection...

...and then, in 1989, Toy Biz released a line of 5" DC comics action figures -- aptly named:


(Just to be clear: this branding was used on quite a bit of DC comics merchandise at the time, and not just limited to the Toy Biz action figures. Here's an example I previously wrote about. Nevertheless, this was the logo that set my little heart racing when I was perusing the toy isles.) 

While 99% of action figure collectors will unanimously agree that the Toy Biz 5" figs were vastly inferior to the Kenner figs released several years prior, at the age of eight years old I really didn't care. All I knew was that the drought was over -- I actually didn't realize there was a distinction between Kenner and Toy Biz, I just thought "Hey, new DC action figures! And they're the same scale as my Super Powers Collection! I need these!".

The Toy Biz DC Comics Super Heroes had some pretty low-key advertising. So low-key, in fact, that I couldn't find any comic book or magazine ads promoting them. All I could find was this vintage TV ad on YouTube courtesy of Sum Square Stories (they have a really extensive archive of 80s and 90s commercials, do check them out): 



If memory serves correctly, the Toy Biz DC action figures were released in two waves, and the first wave included the three Batman 89 characters along with Mr Freeze, the Penguin, Riddler, Robin, Superman, Wonder Woman and Lex Luthor -- so we can essentially thank the Batman 89 film for Toy Biz picking up the license and making that first wave of figs. The second wave was thanks to The Flash TV series from 1990 -- this led to the release of Aquaman, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Two-Face and Flash action figures. Normally I'd discuss the action figs by order of release, but for this one I'm going to start with all the super heroes.

As per usual, it's not just enough to look at the figure. To get the WHOLE experience you need to check out the packaging, too. The images in this article come from various sources (including pics of my own pics), many of these were images found doing media searches. I try to credit the source when I can, but if these are any of your photos and I didn't credit you, please feel free to drop us a line so we can come correct. Alright, upwards and onwards. Let's start with everybody's favorite Kryptonian:


1) Superman

The motion blur photography signifies Superman teetering from the ring's effects. 
image source: ebay.com

  
This was arguably the most popular figure in the toyline (that wasn't Batman or Joker) -- partly because the Richard Donner Superman films had cemented Superman as America's favorite super hero of the 80s and because 1988 was the 50th anniversary of the Man of Steel. I personally had no interest in this guy since I still had my Super Powers Collection version at this point (without cape, of course). Unlike his Kenner counterpart, this Superman didn't have any special power action feature, but came with a special 'kryptonite' ring instead. While Toy Biz chose not to directly rip-off Kenner and create 'power actions' that were triggered by squeezing a fig's arms or legs, they did try clever things to imitate power actions [sometimes it was a hit, and sometimes it was a miss]. Case in point: this Superman figure would start jerking sporadically if you held the kryptonite ring close to his chest. Why? Magnets. I actually found that to be pretty innovative. While most collectors trash this fig as the 'inferior' Superman, I did acquire one later in life from a dealer selling a bulk of DC figures and I was surprised at how well-constructed he was and could've been a dead ringer for my Super Powers Collection Superman.

SuperPowersWiki.com really went in-depth on describing the differences between the Kenner and Toy Biz versions of Superman, and this is a must read for anyone who is generally interested in the differences between the Kenner and Toy Biz figs.

Kenner on the left, Toy Biz on the right.
image source: www.superpowerswiki.com



2) Robin

image source: ebay.com

While Robin was absent in the Batman 89 film, it didn't mean that Toy Biz was going to exclude him from their first wave of DC figs. After all, what's a Batman without a Robin? If you cranked Robin's right arm upward he had a lever in his back (that was conveniently concealed by his cape) that, when pushed, would cause his right arm to come down in a 'karate chop' motion: 


Toy Biz Robin: Front and back. 
Image source: mine.

He also came with a grappling hook and (I'm pretty sure) the same batarang that Toy Biz Batman came with. Some Robins came mispackaged with Lex Luthor's handgun, which some collectors informally refer to as 'the Jason Todd variant'. Similar to Superman, I already had a Super Powers Robin so I wasn't really chasing this one down. As a kid I was very economical, so why would I need two Robins? One was just fine. I'd rather use the money I would've spent on the second Robin on another character I didn't have yet. I did get a Toy Biz Robin later on in life...

Super Powers Robin on the left, Toy Biz Robin on the right.
Image source: me

...and you can see, in a side-by-side comparison with the Super Powers Collection Robin, that they were more or less the same scale and build. Very similar molds, too. I'd probably argue that one was just as good as the other.



3) Wonder Woman

image source: ebay.com

You know what? I have nothing but great things to say about this fig. I didn't own the Super Powers version, and was lucky enough to the Toy Biz version in a clearance bin at my local Zellers sometime in 1991, so yeah... this fig brings back lots of great memories. That being said, I'm sure the Kenner version was superior in sculpt and quality, but I had no qualms with this version.

Wonder Woman came with a lasso (gold-colored thread) that she was able to 'throw' with her right arm when you pressed a button on her back. Because of this, her right arm was always sticking straight up like that eager kid in class who was dying to answer the teacher's question. No complaints here -- at least my JLA now had some diversity. 


Toy Biz Wonder Woman. Image source: mine.




4) Green Lantern

image source: ebay.com

This truly was the crappier version of Green Lantern. I had the Super Powers version and nothing could hold a candle to that one. I wouldn't have even looked twice if this was on the toy store shelves. First, it had some sort of squirt pump mechanism that caused water to shoot from his right fist. I truly disliked action figures that involved water running through them -- too many things could go wrong and they tended to get rusted quickly. [The Joker fig also involved a squirt mechanism, FYI.] Second, the actual mold looks shoddy: it looks like Hal is wearing a bright green turtleneck under a pale green sweater, and what's with those screws in the back? Yup, not a fan. The only thing I like about this fig is his little lantern accessory and the plastic ring he came with. That's not to say that I wouldn't pick him up if I found him for cheap somewhere, but I'm not actively chasing this one down. 


images from ebay.com


5) Aquaman

image source: ebay.com


I didn't own a Super Powers Collection Aquaman (and I still want one to this day), so I would've jumped at the opportunity to grab this if I had seen it on the shelves back then. Let it be known that I have never seen this fig... either carded or loose... anywhere. It's a true anomaly to me.

Toy Biz Aquaman included a little switch on his back that, when flicked, would cause his legs to kick giving the impression he was swimming. He also came with a huge trident weapon and a little plastic seahorse. 

images found on ebay.com

Apparently there's a 'green armed' variant of this Aquaman. I've never seen it in person, but I have seen it for sale online. I don't think there's a huge bump in price 

image source: ebay.com



6) Hawkman 

image source: ebay.com

Super Powers Hawkman was, bar none, my favorite Super Powers figure. I'm fairly certain that it contributed to my lifelong love of Hawkman, particularly the Tony Isabella and Dan Mishkin ongoing series from the 80s (we cover this and more in our 'Reboot' issue of Baxter Stock). While I didn't NEED another Hawkman action figure, I was always curious if he'd been improved on from the Kenner version. Unfortunately, I had also never seen this fig in person (either carded or loose) my entire life, and am still watching for one. Not only is this figure hard to find in the wild, but nobody seems to have any good, high quality photos of this fig. Thankfully, Cool Toy Review has a really nice gallery of hi-res shots: 


image source: www.cooltoyreview.com

From the pics I've examined, the big difference between Toy Biz Hawkman and Kenner Hawkman is that the Toy Biz Hawkman sculpt looks a bit 'boxier'. His wings still flapped, but only thanks to the button on his back that you pushed (versus the squeeze-the-legs 'power action' the Kenner version had). His included weapon/accessory was a mace with a reaaally long handle -- most likely to emulate a flail/morning star. Someday I hope to acquire one of these.


7) The Flash

 
image source: ebay.com


Rounding off our roster of re-made series one Super Powers Collection super heroes, we've got the Flash (presumably Barry Allen). I already had the Kenner Flash and didn't need another one, so I had no interest in this fig -- but that didn't matter since I'd never seen him on the toy store shelves. Now that I think about it, I don't think ANY wave 2 figures from this toyline ever made it to my local department store. This is probably a good thing since I did pick one up a few years ago at a flea market and have to agree that it is much crumbier than the Kenner version. By comparison, the Toy Biz Flash seemed like a very fragile wind-up toy: he had a crank on his back that you wound up in order to make his arms pump and cause his loose head to bobble (giving the illusion of him running).

Toy Biz Flash: front and back.
Image source: me


It's only when you stand the Kenner and Toy Biz Flash side-by-side with each other that you see just how much bigger the Toy Biz version is. The trend I'm noticing is that the Toy Biz figs had longer legs than their Kenner counterparts -- this sometimes made them fit awkwardly in the Super Powers Collection vehicles. 

Super Powers Flash on the left, Toy Biz Flash on the right
This could be Kid Flash (Wally West) standing next to the Flash (Barry Allen), really.
image source: mine


As previously mentioned, a new Flash TV series was being released in 1990, so Toy Biz offered this exact same figure in alternate packaging making the 'Flash' logo the central point of attention on the front of the card:

source: ebay.ca


Toy Biz released ANOTHER Flash action figure, this time with a 'turbo platform' (aka: a platform with wheels you propped Flash on, pulled back and released in order have it go hurtling forward). I've never actually seen this figure in stores or in person, so I can't tell you if he was sturdier than the other Toy Biz Flash. Regardless, here's the figure on card:    

image source: ebay.com

The Ubernerd, Beyond Lonesome blog wrote up a really in-depth review comparing the two different versions of the Toy Biz Flash. Highly recommend you check it out if this kind of stuff interests you.

I recall once seeing a carded Toy Biz Flash with the TV version of the Flash (in costume) as the image on the card. I believe I saw it in Wizard magazine or Hero Illustrated (or one of the hundred other 'comic magazines' available at the time). I can't find any info about this anywhere, so it may have been a custom job or I'm just misremembering what I saw. If you know what I'm referring to, leave us a comment.


Alright, that's enough for one article. In our next article, we'll take a look at the supervillains that were released for the Toy Biz DC Comics Super Heroes toyline. See you then!


-Justin

Wednesday, October 6, 2021

The *other* Green Lantern: Emerald Twilight story -- how we almost NEVER got a Kyle Rayner

Sometimes, we here at DC in the 80s stumble onto a twitter thread SO interesting and informative that we fear if twitter ever crashed and all tweet history was deleted that this info would be lost forever. This is a twitter thread written by Dave Shevlin (founder of Comfort Food Comics) that met the above criteria, who (with his permission, of course) allowed us to give his thread a permanent home until he says otherwise. All words were written by Dave Shevlin. All research was done by Dave Shevlin. If you want to quote any of this, please credit Dave Shevlin. If you'd like to contact Dave, send us an e-mail and we'll forward it to him.

-----

Original posting date: October 28, 2019

Ok, so we're gonna talk about Green Lantern: Emerald Twilight. How we almost never got Kyle Rayner. How Gerard Jones had a very different story in mind. We're gonna talk about how DC made the drastic, correct decision. We're gonna discuss H.E.A.T.

I am gonna preface this by saying: Former Green Lantern writer Gerard Jones was sentenced to 6 years in federal prison for child pornography charges in 2018. There is no debate here. The man is a literal monster. Absolutely disgusting. Cancel culture exists to shun a man like this.

This thread is not to support his work or encourage you to seek it out. Please do not. Rather, its to showcase comics history & show you how we dodged a huge bullet & he was rightfully fired off Green Lantern & we got one of the best runs in comic history with Ron Marz.

So, historical context: Green Lantern as a franchise was struggling in the late 80's. It didn't have its own series, it was running in Action comics Weekly with some odd specials here & there. Hal Jordan wasn't that huge. In 1990 Green Lantern Volume 3 was launched by Jones:

Your mileage may vary on Jones' run & what he did for the GL franchise. The gist of his run is showing how OLD Hal Jordan is. He spends most of the series as an old drifter, wandering the country, with some fresh greyed hair. It is by no means an exciting book with Hal as the lead.

Anyways, this series runs for several years with Jones always battling with his editor Kevin Dooley about its contents. Meanwhile in the Return of Superman story, Hal Jordan's hometown, Coast City is destroyed by Cyborg Superman & Mongul.

Now this is followed up in Green Lantern 46 & 47 by Gerard Jones. Here's the last page of GL #47:


Hal certainly seems ok with everything that happened & he's ready to move on to some other story. Doesn't seem like he's gonna lose it & go crazy over the loss of Coast City, does he?

That's because Ron Marz' Emerald Twilight was originally not planned! Jones had his own version of Emerald Twilight planned. It was even solicited with house ads for it even appearing in books at the time!! Here's the house ad that was to be the cover of GL #48 by Kevin Maguire:

Here are the original previews that were sent out to retailers for Green Lantern issues 48 & 49:

GL 48 by Jones, Cobbs,& Tanghal 

"Superman and the Justice League gather by Green Lantern's side as Hal confronts the horror of the destruction of Coast City. Meanwhile on Oa, the Guardians of the Universe find themselves fighting a lethal battle against the Guardians of the Universe?"

GL 49 by G. Jones, Haynes, & Tanghal 

"Green Lantern is caught up in a battle raging between two equally powerful groups of the Guardians of the Universe. Hal's side loses, and the winners' first act is to take away the power rings' 24-hour time limit, and their yellow impurity Their second act is to appoint a new leader of the Green Lantern Corps --- Sinestro! This issue leads directly into the landmark Green Lantern #50, a major turning point for the series."

So as you can see we almost got a VERY different course of action for Green Lantern in the 90s. Now those are hints of the original proposed plan, but Jones actually went into it all in interviews & a plot synopsis. Here is Jones' original plot for Emerald Twilight in its entirety:

"The destruction of Coast City and his breakup with Carol make Hal realize that he can't find the roots he wants on earth. He's inspired by the memories of the dead, especially his father, to become a better hero; he decides he must affirm himself first and foremost as a Green Lantern, finding his community in the Corps. But when he goes to Oa for the big swearing-in ceremony of all the new GLs, a new group of Guardians appears, claiming to be the true Guardians.

These "New" Guardians claim that the "Old" Guardians are impostors who plan to use the GL Corps to reduce the universe to chaos. The Old group counters that the New ones are impostors who plan to use the GLs to subject the universe to tyranny in the name of "order". Adding credence to the New Guardians' claim--and raising the stakes--are the Zamarons, convinced that they are their husbands. The Zams are about to give birth to the ultimate Cosmic Children, whose power will be such that whoever controls them can control the cosmos. The fate of the universe--chaos or tyranny--hinges on whichever set of Guardians can win over the GL Corps and gain control of the Children.

Hal--who knows the Guardians as no other GLs do, having seen the Old Timer at his most human and vulnerable, and having gone through his conflict with them and his "act of faith" in GL 35--knows in his gut that the New Guardians are the impostors. But the weight of evidence is against him and he can't convince the other GLs (the "Twelve Angry Men" dynamic).Hal has a choice: break with the GL Corps, now his only hope for community and belonging; or collude with something he feels will reduce the universe to tyranny. Hal chooses the former.

He enters the battery to increase his power, fights the Corps and takes the Old Guardians into hiding as he seeks a way to convince his fellow GLs or beat the New Guardians. The stakes for Hal are high: if he's RIGHT about the New Guardians, but they WIN, then the universe is doomed. If he's WRONG in his gut-feeling and HE wins, then HE'S doomed the universe. If he's WRONG and he LOSES, then the universe is okay but Hal is ostracized from the only group that means anything to him. The pressure is on him not only to win, but to be damn sure he's right.

The New Guardians announce their new leader of the GL Corps: Sinestro, renowned for his devotion to order before he broke with the GL Corps. He whips the Corps into a paramilitary group and starts a program of "good" but ruthless acts: like destroying the Khund homeworld. Hal sends his only ally, Star Sapphire, to appeal to her fellow Zamarons. She learns some things about the way the New Guardians convinced them of their legitimacy that suggest to Hal that the power behind the New Guardians is ENTROPY.

Hal contacts the confused but sympathetic Arisia, trying to argue his point with other GLs through her. But Sinestro has them all wowed or cowed...and when Kilowog throws in with Sinestro and his tough new approach, Hal feels his struggle to win over the Corps is becoming hopeless. Hal returns to the Coast City monument, to commune with the memory of his father, whose grave was destroyed along with the city. But the Hunter GLs-revived by Sinestro to police the Corps' internal affairs--catch him there.

He escapes for the moment, but they've destroyed his ring. But the inspiration of Hal's dad makes him want to find a way to keep fighting, and he discovers that he has power within him. His trip into the battery enabled him to internalize his power, but he couldn't realize that as long as he felt he needed his ring, and the Corps. Hal fights back, knowing he may have to fight alone to his death, and defeats the Hunters.

Sinestro reacts to this by getting even tougher with the Corps and speeding up his acts of "purification," and some GLs begin to wonder if Hal was right. The Zamarons, meanwhile, are about to give birth, which would give the New Guardians the power they need to take control of the universe no matter what Hal does. The clock is ticking faster and faster. Star Sapphire, acting under Hal's instructions, learns enough about the New Guardians through the Zamarons to start forcing Entropy to show his hand.

Hal gathers DC earth-heroes to join him against the Corps. When Sinestro tries to send the whole Corps against Hal and his allies, Arisia rediscovers her nerve and fights back against him. Other disaffected GLs join her--but not enough to stop the rest. Arisia's splinter group flees into space, is nearly caught and destroyed by Sinestro's group...but are saved at the last moment by Hal.

Hal now leads his rag-tag band of heroes and rebel GLs against Sinestro on Oa. But Entropy, through the New Guardians, throws him a curve: they reveal to Hal that his father didn't die by accident; his death was arranged by the Old Guardians.... who saw the potential for a great GL in Hal but foresaw that he would need a trauma to make him the fearless man he could be.

At the moment before the final conflict, Hal is shaken to the core: can he fight to defend the beings who killed his father? Hal realizes that his private grief and rage means nothing against the fate of the universe. He fights for the old Guardians despite what they did. The babies are about to be born. The New Guardians capture Sapphire and are about to kill her. The battle begins.

Hal goes head to head with Kilowog, the most painful battle of either of their lives. In the heat of conflict, though, Sinestro begins to reveal his true, wretched self. Hal tricks him into showing his true colors. Kilowog realizes he's been suckered. Enraged, he joins Hal's side. Sinestro's support collapses. The New Guardians dissolve, revealing themselves as mere manifestations of Entropy, and Entropy throws himself personally into the fray. His goal all along has been to reduce the universe to lifeless entropy by robbing it of its life, its ability to change. Too much order (Sinestro) is essentially equal to too much chaos (Entropy). The Old Guardians represent the right way, the way of Life. Now he's about to seize the Children as they're born.

The Old Guardians show up--thanks to Hal's power--and tip the battle. They snatch the babies from Entropy at the last moment. The GLs turn on him. He's destroyed. All seems well. Deceived GLs are forgiven. The Guardians send the Corps off to do its thing while they tend to the Children who will become the greatest powers in the universe.

But all isn't well with Hal. He fought for the Guardians, because it was right, but he can't go on serving the cosmic manipulators who killed his father. They say they don't do things like that anymore, but it's too late. Hal has his own internal power now, and he's learned that he fights best alone. He won't be manipulated again. He goes off to become the Protector!!"


... AND THATS THE END OF THE PROPOSAL! There are a lot of similarities in the proposed & realized Emerald Twilight: Sinestro, Hal fighting the GL's, Hal taking on a new identity clearing the way for a new fresh Lantern to take over the book.

Jones had this to say about it all in a Fanzing interview about his proposed plans:

"Even before Paul, Mike and others said so, (GL Editor) Kevin Dooley and I were talking about using issue 50 to turn everything upside down, bring in a new Green Lantern, give Hal an indefinite break, and get back to basic, exciting stories. 

Unfortunately, Denny O'Neil, who was Kevin's boss, and Paul Levitz and Mike Carlin, didn't feel it was big enough to turn around readers' perceptions of what by then had been a lousy comic for about a year. Particularly if the writer stayed the same. 

As Denny said to me later, sometimes the market has to see that a complete creative shift is occurring, including the creative team. Which makes total sense, although at the time I was very angry and frustrated. This whole series was my frustration, the series I really wanted to make great but that for four years had never felt like mine, and here I saw a chance to start over and make it good at last, and I just couldn't get there. 

What I feel worst about in retrospect is that Kevin was apparently going to bat for me again and again with his bosses, but because he wasn't free to tell me what was going on behind the scenes, and because I was mad at him about other petty crap, I blamed him. I criticized him to his bosses, wrote a nasty fax, really puerile ways to blow off my frustration. I apologized later, and I think everyone understood that I was just a clueless freelancer, 3000 miles away. But it was an ugly finish. I quit so they didn't have to fire me. 

Then they had an emergency plotting session, Paul, Mike, Denny, Archie [Goodwin], and Kevin, and they handed that plot to Ron Marz, who was coming up at the time, had worked with [Jim] Starlin, had a cosmic resume going. 

First, I hasten to say that "The Protector" was a working title! We were going to do better than that! But yeah, there was going to be a new, younger GL, which I'd originally preferred to doing a Hal who was too burdened by the ball and chain of continuity. Hal would have popped in and out, maybe gotten his own miniseries, and then maybe or maybe not have become a GL again. I had various thoughts about the down-the-road story. But issue 51 would have been the introduction of a new GL, a completely new character, who was still in the vaguest development when it all ended."

SO! What happened next?? DC, in a real pickle here has Jones leave the title, but a huge supposed "Break the Bat"/"Death of Superman" Green Lantern Emerald Twilight story has been solicited. In an emergency situation they turn to Ron Marz, who has this to say:

"I got a call late on a Friday night offering me the book," says Marz of 1993. "I'd actually been down in New York for the day at the Marvel offices. I came home, my wife and I went out for a quick dinner, and then I guess around 9 o'clock the phone rang and it was Kevin Dooley offering me the job. Mike Carlin, Archie Goodwin and Denny O'Neil were in the room, as well as Eddie Berganza, who was Kevin's assistant at the time. I believe Paul Levitz might well have been there too."

"Kevin said he wanted me to take over 'GL' because the book needed a fresh direction I was excited, because I'd always thought Hal was a pretty cool character, and I love that costume. And then the other shoe dropped. Kevin explained what was planned, essentially removing Hal from the book and replacing him with a GL that I would make up. Pretty serious stuff. The real kicker, and I swear to God this is true, is I was wearing a Hal T-shirt when I got the call. It was one of those pocket T-shirts from the Warner Bros. Stores. I still have it."

So Ron Marz takes over the books with a plot & we got what was published. Hal Jordan, utterly broken by the destruction of Coast City jarringly tries to remake it in his image with his ring. Stopped by the Guardians & gone mad with grief, he destroys the Corps & becomes Parallax:

The response to this was shock. Some people loved the new direction & Parallax. Others thought it the most disrespectful thing ever done, spawning one of the most toxic, awful fanbases ever: H.E.A.T. - Hal's Emerald Advancement Team. On newsgroups, Prodigy, GeoCities sites, AOL rooms, CompuServe & all of the other 1994 internet chat rooms of the time, people enraged over this direction came together. They harassed DC, sending death threats & countless awful messages to the writers & editors. These fans together made H.E.A.T. whose mission was: As Green Lantern fans, it is our goal to encourage and advocate the return and exoneration of Hal Jordan as Green Lantern, the restoration of the Green Lantern legends, and the revival of the honorable Green Lantern Corps.

This is one of the first recorded toxic fanbase groups. They did not die down, they did not quit. In 1997 they took out a full page ad in Wizard Magazine. These people were unhealthily obsessed:

They are infamous for spending more than 5-10 years trying to harass DC & anyone who would listen into reversing this story & putting Hal back on top as a character. They are a clear cut case in what not to do as a comic fan.

In 1997, Will Allred of Quantum Zone interviewed Jack Grimes from H.E.A.T. detailing his efforts to advance Hal. Here's a few interactions from the interview:

---

Allred: Now that we know I'm a fanboy, could you give us a little background on how this project got started?

Grimes: Well, I had had the idea for a Hal/Green Lantern Corps advertisement swirling around in my head since the Green Lantern Corps page's "Green Lantern Corps Petition" really started taking off, racking up something like 50 signatures a month. I just didn't have the initiative (nor the time) to investigate. That is, until late August, when friend and fellow Green Lantern fan Harry Philipo publicly suggested taking out an ad to the "regulars" on AOL's DC Online GL message board. When almost a dozen people immediately pledged at least $20, I figured we might actually have a shot at it, and I e-mailed them with my interest in organizing the ad. We did some investigating and found the ad rates for a few industry magazines. Despite the vastly greater cost in Wizard, we decided to make the biggest impact possible and go with the industry's most widely distributed magazine. Kevin Huxford opened communication lines with Wizard, which I then followed. Joe Sturgeon and Harry lent their computer graphics talents in constructing the ad itself, which I chose the image and wrote copy for, while I drummed up support on the Internet from the most publicly adamant fans.

Allred: You've got the ad. What do you hope to accomplish with it?

Grimes: Obviously, we want to see Hal Jordan in a prominent, heroic position again in the DC Universe, and the Green Lantern concept enriched once more with the mythology of the Corps. But at the core of it, it's to send a united message to DC, and all comic companies. A message that says long-time fans are tired of taking a back seat to hot trends and disposable incomes. And a message to fans of Hal and the Corps letting them know that they are not alone.

Allred: Do you think it will work and bring Hal and the Corps back?

Grimes: I don't see why not. We certainly aren't calling for the end of the Kyle Rayner Green Lantern. There's no way we'd wish "Emerald Twilight" on any comic fan, no matter the character. What we would like to see is in everyone's best interest: a bigger, brighter, more successful GREEN LANTERN.

Allred: How do you think those at DC will react?

Grimes: The optimist in me says, "Immediately hire Kurt Busiek." The pessimist in me echoes one comic professional I contacted for contributions (I contacted several, and most sent their best wishes of support, but declined to donate due to conflict of interest), who said that DC might treat the ad as a joke. But I really don't know how DC will respond...if past experience is any indicator, they'll probably shrug it off as the "cries of the loud minority," but this is a unique situation. I truly hope and expect them to take us seriously and at least consider where we are coming from.

Allred: Anything else to add?

Grimes: I'd just like to make it clear to all Kyle Rayner fans that we are not calling for replacement. We're calling for expansion and restoration. And, I'd like to once again thank all those that helped make this ad possible!

---

Now, personally, I love Emerald Twilight. Do I think its a jarring, sudden story? Yes, very much so. But I always point to Superman 83 as a integral piece of the puzzle a lot of people may have missed which comes between GL 47 & 48 and shows Hal on the cusp of cruel madness.

In response to fan backlash, Marz had this to say: (source: Emerald Archive: Ron Marz answers every question regarding 'Green Lantern')

"Look, people are going to believe what they want to believe. But if there are actually people out there thinking it was somehow my life's goal to 'destroy' Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern mythos ... please, seek help. I was offered a job. The job had certain parameters. I took the offer and worked within those parameters, and did the best job I could." 

"The truth is, if I hadn't written Emerald Twilight, someone else would have, and the story would have been substantially the same. That's by no means an effort to pass the 'blame.' I did write those stories, and if you don't like them, feel free to blame me because, yes, my name is in the credits box." 

"I still think 'ET' was a gutsy move by DC at the time. To effect permanent change upon one of your top characters is brave. I liked Hal as a character. I still do. But he'd been badly handled for a number of years prior to my tenure. I can remember picking up the first few issues of what was then the new GL series, and coming away just not caring because Hal seemed like a wuss wandering the country searching for … whatever. This was a fearless test pilot?" 

"So the thinking at the time was that something drastic was needed, something that would attract a lot of attention back to what had become a moribund franchise. That much worked. When I agreed to take the book, issues #48, #49 and #50 were all due." 

"The book was late, the planned issues had been pulled, and things had to get moving right now. So I wrote my first three issues at the same time. That's why there were three different artists on them. I remember writing part of issue #48 between sets at a Peter Gabriel concert. I found a quiet place where I could steal a few minutes to write." 

"The deadlines were that tight. I would have loved to write 'ET' over six issues. I think that's about the length that would have been necessary to really make Hal's descent believable and tragic. So what we ended up doing was a bit rushed because of circumstances, and I regret that. But if I'd had six issues, the events would have been generally the same. I just would have had more room for the character stuff. Sometimes you just have to play the cards you're dealt." 

"I had a few pages of notes from editorial, dictating the broad strokes of what needed to happen: Hal goes nuts, wipes out the Corps, kills Sinestro and blows up the Central Battery and the Guardians. The details were up to me."

"I decided to have Hal kill Kilowog on camera, because I felt we needed to feel the loss of a more known character to make this thing have some weight. I decided that Ganthet would be the one Guardian to survive, since he'd had some previous exposure." 

"I've never given much thought to what I would have done differently, because that wasn't a possibility at the time. As I said, though, more pages to tell the story would have been great. I had the most freedom to develop the new Green Lantern. DC just let me make up Kyle from scratch. The name, the look, the background, everything. I'm really thankful for as much leash as I had." 

"I guess I saw Hal as a classic character who had turned into a dull character that not many readers cared about. Very often it's not the character itself, it's the portrayal. And once readers become bored with a portrayal, it's very hard to get them to come back. 'ET' certainly jump-started interest in GL, so from that viewpoint, it was a success."

"As to whether it was necessary, apparently sales were sliding enough that something drastic was needed. Having read what was originally written and drawn for issues #48-#50, I can say that those issues would not have stoked interest in the series, because those issues were more of the same. That's not a qualitative judgment. I'm just saying that the material wasn't exciting enough to attract new readers."

So there we have it. All the behind the scenes drama surrounding Emerald Twilight & the huge change to Hal Jordan as a character by DC Comics.

Dave Shevlin

---

The views and opinions expressed by Dave Shevlin are those of the author and do not reflect the official beliefs or opinions of DC in the 80's, its Editors, or other contributors. Any content provided by our bloggers or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

As mentioned, Dave Shevlin is the founder of Comfort Food Comics, which has it's own podcast (go ahead and give them a listen) and is passionate about comic binding. Check out his custom bound editions of the 1989 Mister Miracle ongoing series and Marv Wolfman-era Superman stories.

Wednesday, January 27, 2021

DC in the 80s interviews editor Dave Manak

We at DC in the 80s LOVE interviewing editors who worked at DC comics during the 1980s. Often, editors know the 'inside scoop' of what was going on behind-the-scenes and can share interesting anecdotes of working with certain comic pros or amusing stories about what was happening in the editorial meetings. Editors are the unsung heroes of the comic book industry -- they were the glue that kept our favorite books published on time and coordinated with the writer(s), artist(s), letterer(s) and everyone else on the creative team (that I'm drawing a blank on) by keeping everything from going off the rails. Next time you meet an editor of one your favorite books, tell him how much you appreciated his work.

Today we are lucky enough to interview Dave Manak.


Dave Manak in DC offices (circa early 1980s)

--------

Justin: Welcome, Dave. Tell us a bit about your editorial time at DC comics during the eighties.

Dave: I worked on the editorial staff at DC for approximately three years from 1981 through 1983.

I edited DC’s Mystery line: Ghosts, Unexpected, House of Mystery and Green Lantern for about one year. Then I moved over to work in our Special Projects department led by my mentor and friend, Joe Orlando for my last two years on staff. There I worked on projects for various companies like Atari, Mattel, Kenner and The White House (Yes, THAT White House!) to name a few. I’ll talk more about that in time, but first let me tell you how I got to 1981.

Justin: Your career follows an interesting trajectory -- your first work (that I'm aware of) was as an artist for DC's Plop! magazine in the seventies. Plop! was kind of like DC's answer to MAD magazine. (Marvel had CRAZY magazine). I have your first artistic work cited here as 1974's Plop! #7:

Dave: Sometime in 1971, as a young guy living in Southeast PA with no contact with anyone in the comic book industry I sent a sheet of drawings of my best versions of superheroes to Joe Kubert at DC (National Periodical Publications at the time). I sent it to Joe because of my love for his art in SGT ROCK, particularly ENEMY ACE. To my shocked delight I got a letter back asking me if I’d like to visit him in NYC at the DC offices and BOOM! I was on my way to the Big City.

After a bunch of visits showing Joe new samples each time I showed him some humor cartooning I did and he introduced me to Joe Orlando, who was already famous from his time at MAD Magazine, and that was the meeting that would set things in motion. In about a year I moved to NYC and started doing some freelance production work at DC to pay the rent and sold my first single panel cartoon to DC appearing in Plop! # 6, Joe Orlando’s brainchild. Then it wasn’t long before I was penciling and inking stories for Plop!, and I became good friends with Orlando after that. Maybe he saw something of himself when he was just starting out in me. I don’t know... but I do know that for the next almost thirty years that I knew him, we had a BLAST! Oh, and that’s when I met my DC best bud: Andy Helfer. He was Joe Orlando’s assistant (or something --I’m not sure what... ha ha) but we had a lot of fun in those days. Andy went on to become a great writer and editor at DC.

cover of Plop! #24 (1976) by illustrated by Dave Manak

Dave: Joe Orlando was editor of the DC’s Mystery comics line and had mystery inventory scripts that they couldn’t use, so the two of us would sit in Joe Orlando’s office rewriting some of them and turning them into humor stories for Plop! (I think that’s how I learned how to write comics. Besides, I was a huge movies buff and was always writing screenplays in my head.) During that time I met Sergio Aragones who was the premiere artist for Plop! and, of course, a major MAD Magazine contributor. At that time the DC offices were a pretty loose place where freelance artists and writers would wander in and out freely. One could talk in the open artists bullpen area between the editorial offices really as long as you liked catching up on stuff with fellow creators, some seasoned pros and some relatively new, like me. 

Although my style was a bit "Sergio-esque", I wasn’t trying to imitate him -- although he was an influence. I got it mostly because I liked the cartoonist Charles Rodriguez who did single panel gags and work for National Lampoon. My time at Plop! was pretty much a dream come true. I played around with my art style during the seventies mainly because I worked on so many individual pieces and could. Anyway, after a few years Sergio and Joe Orlando urged me to submit some ideas to MAD Magazine. I did and sold a few cover ideas to them and some gags that Don Martin drew. WHAT A THRILL! All of the rejected ideas -- and there were quite a few, let me tell you -- I tramped over to Marvel’s CRAZY Magazine and pitched them to then editor Larry Hama. He liked them and I had an extra gig drawing them myself. Of course, an artist or writer couldn't use their own name if they sold to MAD Magazine and then sold the rejects to a competitor, so, I’m not sure how many fans know that I used the name KOVACS for that work at CRAZY.

Marvel's CRAZY magazine #41 (1978)

Dave: Also, a shout out to Paul Levitz, here. He began as Joe Orlando’s assistant editor around the same time as I showed up. We both learned how to be comic book people from Joe. And Paul, of course, became a major creator and leader that made DC the company that it is today.

I also have to mention the arrival of Jenette Kahn in 1976 as Publisher. She became president in 1981 and brought a new feeling of creativity and sophistication to comics into the eighties and nineties.

Justin: So, the next BIG move after that was becoming editor on 4 ongoing DC titles in 1981: 3 Mystery anthology titles (Ghosts, Secrets of Haunted House, and Unexpected) and 1 regular title (Green Lantern). [One of these things is not like the others -- more on that later.] How did you make the jump to editorial?


Dave: Well, that brings us to 1981. Joe Orlando asked me to have lunch with him and Dick Giordano. I had no idea what for. There they asked me if I’d be interested in becoming an editor as well as Dick’s assistant editor. Dick was then DC’s managing editor, but he was still editing the Batman titles. I’d really never thought about that line of work, but after a few days I got back to them and Manak was an editor!

I had the Mystery line of books and Green Lantern. And since the Mystery books were all-new stories, each issue I got to work with talents the likes of: Keith Giffen, Robert Kanigher, Mark Texeira, Gary Cohn, Dan Mishkin, Paul Levitz, Paris Cullins, Steve Ditko, Tony DeZuniga, Jack C Harris, Bob Rozakis, Steve Skeates, Trevor Von Eden, Steven Bissette, Paul Kupperberg, Joey Cavalieri, Greg LaRocque, Ernie Colon, Pat Broderick, Andrew Helfer, Gerry Conway, Mike Zeck, Mark Silvestri... I’d gotten to know most of these people simply by hanging out at the DC offices in the seventies -- it really was a community of freelance writers and artists, so it was easy to work with them. I got along great with everyone and I have to mention Bob Kanigher. At the time I really didn’t know what a volume of work he’d done in comics. He didn’t really talk about comics much to me but, more, as I remember about the scar he had on his cheek from a fencing match or fanciful goings on and escapades in Europe. True? Made up? Probably, but who cares? It’s a precious memory, nonetheless.

One of the things I found very cool was personally doing layout sketches for the Mystery covers and getting great artists like my old pal, Joe Kubert to do them. He loved it! Ernie Colon did some, too.

Justin: Being an editor of a title seems to require a different type of skill set than being a writer or artist on a book. How did you find the transition? What were some key take-aways from your experience? As far as you were concerned, what was your content strategy for the anthology books?

Dave: As a new editor I certainly was in the best of worlds. After all, I shared an office with Dick Giordano. What more could a novice ask for? The way I personally approached editing was pretty basic. Make sure the story had a beginning, middle and end (or cliffhanger) and to make sure it wasn’t DULL. I pretty much learned this from watching Twilight Zone episodes as a kid. As far as I'm concerned, that’s the best storytelling format for any comic book story or series... and it’s exactly what I used when I went on to do a pretty large amount of writing for Marvel’s STAR Comics.

Justin: You edited Green Lantern from issues #145 - 155 (1981 - 1982). I always liked your run of Green Lantern -- we saw a lot of his classic rogues appear (ex: Goldface, Black Hand, etc...), we saw Hal receive more characterization, the Adam Strange back-ups were dropped for Green Lantern Corps back-ups (written by Paul Kupperberg) which ultimately led to the GLC making more appearances in the regular stories, and your run more or less ended with Hal going on more sci-fi adventures (as opposed to simply protecting earth). We liked this run so much that we reviewed it several years ago. I've got to ask: Marv Wolfman was the writer during the majority of your run (issues 145 - 153) -- how much of your Green Lantern run was yours and how much was Marv? Was it a 50/50 split?

Dave: Editing Green Lantern was great!... with writers like Marv Wolfman and Paul Kupperberg, and an artist like Joe Staton, I was the one learning how to do a main-line comic from great talents like them. When a book has great talents working on it who respect the material, it’s not hard to do. I offered suggestions and that was about it.

Green Lantern #154 (1982) - cover by Gil Kane

Justin: One story I seem to recall [writer] Dan Mishkin telling me is that Blue Devil and Amethyst were originally created so that the Mystery anthology titles could have 'recurring characters' to increase readership. I believe the idea was pitched to you, which you liked, but senior management decided Blue Devil and Amethyst should have their own titles. Am I getting the story right?

Dave: Both Dan and Gary are great writers on their own, but back in 1981 they were a writing team and the Mystery books were basically try-out books for new artists and writers. The team presented the story ideas Blue Devil and Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld. I took them to Joe Orlando saying I thought they would make great new titles. Joe took them to the powers that be, and... Guess what? Those titles were born. Actually, I was in on the initial development: working with Dan and Gary writing, and Paris Cullins (on Blue Devil) and Ernie Colon (on Amethyst) as artists.


Justin: So, as I recall, the 3 Mystery anthology books all concluded in 1982. We know that around this time anthology books were falling out of flavor with comic fans as they wanted lengthier stories and consistent characters. How did this lead into your next transition?

Dave: Being an editor was fun but the Mystery line was soon going to be gone, and it’s not that I couldn’t have continued with the superhero books -- that’s what DC wanted me to do -- but I wanted to make a change.

The Special Projects Department was created to deal with the creative side of licensing; making custom comics for companies with their characters or DC properties. Joe Orlando was put in charge there and I wanted to work with him. So for the next two years that's what I did...

...but first I’d like to apologize to the writers and artists who I don’t mention here -- either my almost-forty-year-old memory doesn’t hold it anymore or I don’t have the info at hand.


Joe Orlando (circa early-to-mid 1980s)

Dave: So, working in Special Projects was an absolute whirlwind! Most of the time we had more than one project going at a time, but had to treat each as if they were the only one. Under Orlando’s leadership we did it. Joe Orlando picked most of the talent, and other times we’d have meetings to decide who would be good for what.

One of the first things we did was put together the Captain Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew preview as a 16-page insert in 1982's New Teen Titans #16. I got to work with Roy Thomas and Scott Shaw on that. I didn’t know them before that, but they were as nice as could be and it was fun.


Dave: Then there was Atari, Mattel, Kenner and the White House and others during my two years.

For Atari and Mattel it was custom comics, for Kenner it was the Super Powers Collection (a DC-owned property) and The White House was the New Teen Titans 3-part mini-series for the government’s drug awareness program.

From what I recall, the Atari comics were pretty much based entirely on the video games with some character reference about the characters in the games and maybe a brief synopsis. I know that Dick Giordano was in charge of the biggie, Atari Force. I handled several, but my stand out memory is that Gil Kane did one of my books. It was the first time we’d met and I was in awe, for sure. I also did the art for one of them -- DIG DUG! Unfortunately, I never saw a printed version.

Then came Mattel. The property was 'Masters of The Universe' and the main character was... 'He-Man'...SCREEEECH! He-Man? Yes. And we soon found out what an iconic character He-Man would become -- with the help of DC’s mini-comics, of course! LOL. These seven comics were written by Gary Cohn and penciled by Mark Texeira. Action figures of The Masters of The Universe were already being sold, but Mattel chose DC to give them a bit of history and place them in our universe. This was also greatly enhanced by the Masters of The Universe 16-page preview insert which appeared in several DC comics in 1982, and was followed by a DC comics limited-series all written by Paul Kupperberg and penciled by George Tuska. What a team!


Masters of The Universe 16-page preview insert that was published in 1982

Dave: One funny thing: companies often send toys to people they work with in gratitude for a job well done. I was the point person for the project on the phone with Mattel at every step. Well, this huge box shows up next to my desk addressed to me. Hmmm? From Mattel. It turned out to be a full-sized Castle Greyskull with some Masters of The Universe action figures! I thanked Mattel for their kindness and since I wasn’t a toy collector I gave it to Joe Orlando, who had young kids just the right age then. I was a big hit with them for sure!

Justin: This is interesting... Mattel was obviously impressed with DC's work on the Masters of The Universe franchise, so why didn't Mattel just continue with DC and turn the Kupperberg mini-series into an ongoing series? It would seem like Mattel just decided to do their 'own thing' after those 7 DC mini-comics, and start producing their own mini-comics 'in-house' -- eventually handing the license over to Marvel's STAR comics in 1986? 

Dave: I don't know why DC didn't continue with a MOTU regular comic. Maybe they wanted to go beyond the initial contract with Mattel and couldn't come to an agreement. In retrospect, that's probably what happened.

Kenner’s Super Powers Collection featured DC action figures with a 'trick movement' built into them -- for example, slightly squeeze the legs together and the arms go up, etc. Joe Orlando did most of the actual design work on the characters, and then it was just a matter of approving the prototypes and so on. I got to meet comic book legend and god, Jack Kirby, when he dropped by Joe’s office. Kirby did some design work on some characters he created for DC’s New Gods comics with Darkseid being the headliner.

House ad for Kenner's new Super Powers Collection action figures. Collect 'em all!

Justin: I wasn't aware you were involved in the Kenners Super Powers Collection! I LOVED that toy line! Were you involved in producing the mini-comics packaged with the Kenner figures, as well? Why was the Kenners Super Powers Collection toy line discontinued? It seemed as if they had a few more waves of figures planned (ex: Blue Devil, Vigilante, Manhunter, Wonder Twins, various Legion of Super-Hero characters, Man-Bat, a few made-up characters) [editor's note: you can read all about the history of the Super Powers Collection on this fantastic fan-site: http://kennersuperpowers.com/]

Dave: As far as the SUPER POWERS COLLECTION goes... Joe Orlando did most of the assigning and reviewing of the finishes because Kenner was such an important client. I think sales just weren't large enough for it to continue.

The New Teen Titans Drug awareness mini-series: these were three New Teen Titans comics done in cooperation with the President and Nancy Reagan’s Drug Awareness Program and were co-sponsored by Keebler, the American Soft Drink Industry and IBM.

Once again, it was a sheer pleasure working with Teen Titans' team [Marv] Wolfman and [George] Perez. George was an absolute joy to work with, also. I got to visit The White House and, on the whole, I’m very proud of the finished project. I guess how much real good it did will never be known, but if it had some impact on it’s readers I’d count that as a success.

The New Teen Titans Drug Awareness special #1 (1983)

Dave: Well, that kind of wraps this up. Next would be my Marvel work and meeting my cartooning best bud, Michael Gallagher, and then back to DC for Looney Tunes Magazine and MAD Magazine again, and then to Sonic the Hedgehog at Archie comics. I know I left some people out during my years at DC -- editors and peers who had an impact on my career and life -- but I hope you know that all of you guys will stay in my hearts! Hmm... maybe I’m the next Doctor.

MAD magazine #342 (1996). Art by Dave Manak (as 'M&e')


Justin: Thank you for sitting with us today, Dave!

----

If you have any additional question for Dave Manak, send them our way and maybe we'll be able to get answers for you. No absurd questions, thanks!