USENET fandom - Crisis on Captive Earth and the true identity of "Satan Girl"

About a year ago, there was a semi-regular feature here at DC in the 80's called Usenet Fandom... wherein I would dredge up forum posts about comics from the prehistoric internet and, with my own superpower of "hindsight" proceed to dissect and analyze them... making us "future folks" feel quite a bit smarter than all those college students pulling up BBS's and newsgroups via primitive modems.
As I often do, I found myself getting sidetracked... and eventually lost my way with the feature.

Well... let's give it another go, shall we?

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Today we're going to discuss the blockbuster follow-up to Crisis on Infinite Earths... Crisis on Captive Earth! Wait, what?!

In a missive titled, "The 'Next' CRISIS?" on January 28 1986, Usenetter "Mr. B", says:

We'll discuss Crisis on Captive Earth in a bit more detail below, however... this is a portion of the text page from Secret Origins #2 (May, 1986) Mr. B is talking about:

I'll agree somewhat with Mr. B, the origin story was perhaps a bit hokey... but, very likely contorted to fit the existing plot.  The text-piece in the back of the issue discusses the entire history of the character (and plenty of neat Charlton Comics information!). That being said, perhaps DC was trying to tie everything in as neatly as possible. This doesn't always make for the snappiest or most exciting story, but it works.

Gil Kane's artwork here, while not bad... sort of dates the book, and makes it feel much older than it is. I have similar feelings anytime I read pre-Crisis "Trial era" Flash comics with Carmine Infantino on art. Mr. B is mistaken as to the penciller on the Blue Beetle ongoing... that would be Paris Cullins (though, Chuck Patton did draw issue #10).

Crisis on Captive Earth, eh? Well, research indicates that you and I might know this maxi-series better as Crisis of the Soul! Hmm, still nothin' huh? Okay... Crisis on Captive Earth became... Crisis of the Soul... which then became... Legends!

Per Amazing Heroes #62 (January 1, 1985) which served as their 1985 Preview issue, this story was originally envisioned to take place in a twelve-issue maxi-series by Paul Levitz, Len Wein, and Jerry Ordway. Legends would only run six issues, and would feature Wein, as well as John Ostrander and John Byrne in the creators' chairs... and it's finished product may have only matched the scrapped maxis in when it would start hitting store shelves.

Jerry Ordway offered the following:

"The Crisis sequel was Crisis of the Soul, and featured the Corruptors from Legion continuity, I think. It was meant to be very personal to the heroes, showing them the darkness and having them deal with it and reject it or not. The Corruptors basically quarantine the Earth and that’s all I remember off the top of my head. Paul Levitz and I plotted out the main beats, and it was all set to go, until the editor ran into resistance from the other editors who didn’t want to have to cross over with it. Then when the editors changed, I bowed out. It became Legends, but it was fairly different from what we originally planned."

A piece from TwoMorrows Publishing's wonderful Back Issue #9 sheds a bit of light on this subject. The two-pages included below come from their free-preview of the issue... they always put out great work, and are well worth your time.

From Back Issue #9 (2003)

Whoop... Legion of Super-Heroes stuff. That really puts me at a disadvantage. Let's see what we might be able to unpack here without much in the way of context. Satan Girl, from what I have deduced, was created as a dark-mirror of Supergirl (Kara Zor-El) when she had been exposed to Red Kryptonite while on an adventure in the 30th Century.

Adventure Comics #313 (October, 1963)

Since Red-K was no longer a "thing", post-Crisis, this character went away... very quickly, in fact (more on that in a bit) that is, until Zero Hour where she shows up to give the Legionnaires grief as a time anomaly. Not sure why Mr. B included this bit, but I'm pretty glad he did.

For completist's sake, here are a couple of replies I was able to locate... surprisingly, none of which add anything to the CRISIS talk... it's all Satan Girl here...

On February 2, 1986, "CF" answered in a post titled "Sensor Girl=Satan Girl" with:

On February 5, 1986, "TY" followed up with:

So from this, I gather that Satan Girl only lasted the one story... again... not sure why Mr. B included this... but it was a fun education regardless!

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That's all we've got for this installment. I hope folks enjoyed this... and as always, if you have any additions or corrections, please do not hesitate to write-in! Thanks for reading!


-Chris Sheehan

Can't wait for the next installment in this series of articles? For more of Chris Sheehan, check out his highly recommended Chris is on Infinite Earths blog. He also co-hosts the very excellent Cosmic Treadmill podcast with Reggie Hancock!

USENET fandom - Marv Wolfman speaks out (1984)

Before we had the World Wide Web, we had UseNet. Developed in 1980, UseNet allowed a collection of computer users to interconnect via dial-up modems and post messages onto newsgroups (which resemble BBSes). Anywhere and anytime comic fans are able to congregate, you know they will be exchanging opinions and ideas about comic books - particularly DC comic books. In today's segment, Chris Sheehan examines what online comic fans were saying about Crisis on Infinite Earths. Please note: usernames have been removed for privacy reasons.

Marv Wolfman was apparently, at the very least, a passive UseNet follower/reader/commenter. Today we’re going to take a look at some of Mr. Wolfman's own thoughts on some of the titles he was involved with circa Spring 1984. This comes to us via netterhack BB.

In a post called "DC Comments from Marv Wolfman" dated April 2, 1984, BB shares the following:

Vigilante: The thought of this book becoming grim is a bit odd, as I always considered this one as such. It was a street level book, that often draws (or invites) comparison to Marvel’s Punisher... if Frank used NERF guns. I do suppose an argument can be made that the series grew darker as it went on, leading to an unforgettable final issue written by Paul Kupperberg.

The issues Marv mentions that Alan Moore wrote are #17-18. Now, this is a grim little tale that tackles the subjects of pedophilia and prostitution. The story’s ending is particularly disturbing. Vigilante teams with a woman named Fever, who runs over the molester with a car, and spins out the wheels of the car on his body for bonus splatteriness and gore!

Love the mention of Crisis: Earth (History of the DC Universe). I always get chills looking at the earliest advertisements for the series that would become Crisis on Infinite Earths... It always makes me feel like we’re seeing something we shouldn't. Just imagine the brainstorming sessions going down during this time! He/They were literally deciding the fates of some of our favorites as this missive was posted.

Titans: Issue #44 (Tales of the Teen Titans) was huge for many reasons. Not only, as is mentioned above does it uncover Deathstroke the Terminator’s origin... it is also the first appearance of Dick Grayson as Nightwing! Slade Wilson’s son Joey (Jericho) also debuts here... AND it is part of the legendary Judas Contract story line. For a Titans fan, it doesn’t get a whole lot bigger than that!

We learn that Deathstroke was trained by Captain Adeline Kane (who would eventually become his wife) in the art of guerrilla warfare. He would volunteer to undergo a bit of experimental medical testing, meant to overstimulate the adrenal gland (an attempt to evade truth serums). The experiment wound up unlocking Slade’s mental potential, affording him the ability to utilize 90% of his brain... as well as granting him superhuman physical attributes.

We also come to learn that Deathstroke lost his eye at the hands (or bullet) of Adeline when their son Joey was held captive and had his throat slashed. She blamed the event on her husband, and attempted to shoot him... he survived, thanks in great part to his superhuman speed and reflexes... but still lost his eye.

It’s amazing to consider the chase for sell-outs back during this time. Today we hear about print runs selling out, however, due to the speculator-variant cover onslaught, we can tell that these didn’t quite "sell through"... they were over ordered so we can get our hand on that super-rare 1:1000 Wolverine as a taco cover... and will, for the next several years clog dollar bins from coast to coast. Back in the 80’s though? It feels like a sellout actually means something. We remember these issues. [Walt] Simonson’s Thor, black-suit Spidey, Judas Contract. All classics.


Omega Men: This was one I never really followed... though, for whatever reason, still collected. The first Doug Moench storyline is perhaps most famous for being the first appearance of the Main Man himself, Lobo. The Omega Men themselves first appeared in a Marv Wolfman-penned Green Lantern story, in which they watch over a sector that the Lanterns are not allowed entrance into.

Star Trek: This is literally the first time I’m hearing that Marv had any involvement with this series, and have come to find that he served as editor for some of the DC Comics run with the property (after writing and editing it for Marvel). Not much to add, I never was into Star Trek... and wouldn’t know a Vulcan from a Tribble if they both knocked at my door.

I left the last bit in just because I was tickled that even back in 1984 people were referring to posted mail as "snail mail". I would have never imagined that the term would have been coined so early a point in digital communication. I mean, I feel like we’re still somewhat in the infancy of what the Internet can truly do... back in 1984? We’re talking the fetal Internet! By the way, if you wanna contact Marv Wolfman... disregard the 666 address above, they don’t live there no more.

That’s gonna do it for this installment. BB’s post like many of the time, went unanswered (and unless the message somehow got "lost", he never followed up those 1-2 days later like he said). That’s the way things went back when you had to dial in... if you could dial in. Still, gotta wonder how many folks wrote in to Marv at the DC offices because of this missive though! As always, if you have any additions or corrections, please feel free to contact me in care of this website. Thank you for reading.

-Chris

Can't wait for the next installment in this series of articles? For more of Chris Sheehan, check out his highly recommended Chris is on Infinite Earths blog.

USENET Fandom - Fan reaction to Alan Moore's version of Swamp Thing

Before we had the World Wide Web, we had UseNet. Developed in 1980, UseNet allowed a collection of computer users to interconnect via dial-up modems and post messages onto newsgroups (which resemble BBSes). Anywhere and anytime comic fans are able to congregate, you know they will be exchanging opinions and ideas about comic books - particularly DC comic books. In today's segment, Chris Sheehan examines what online comic fans were saying about Crisis on Infinite Earths. Please note: usernames have been removed for privacy reasons.

For today’s installment we will begin looking at the primitive Internet’s reaction to learning that all they knew about Swamp Thing... was wrong. As luck would have it, I hear tell there was recently a podcast on this subject... somewhere. You’re a resourceful bunch, I’m sure you can find it if you look hard enough.

Let’s look at a missive from a fella we’ll call MC, "Swamp Thing #21 (spoiler)" dated November 6, 1983. Curiously, almost two full weeks before the release date, if DCIndexes is to be believed (Release date listed as November 17, 1983). More likely the posting date got janked at some point in the past quarter century.

MC opines:

Starting at the start, Warrior Magazine was an anthology mag published in Great Britain. It featured several stories per issue, and would include Alan Moore’s early work on features such as V for Vendetta and the re-imagined Marvelman (aka: Miracleman). I lucked into a handful of these at a used-book store sometime around the turn of the century. They are amazing pieces of history to behold. Seeing the original V for Vendetta in all its black and white glory is a real treat.

It would be Moore’s work in Warrior as well as 2000AD that caught the eye of Len Wein, who at the time was working as an editor for DC Comics.

Contrary to the belief of many, Alan Moore’s first issue of (Saga of) Swamp Thing was NOT with issue #21’s "Anatomy Lesson", but with issue #20’s "Loose Ends". As MC offers, issue #20 was a somewhat middling affair, and served primarily as a bridge from the previous creator Martin Pasko’s stories to Moore’s new take on the character. It would close with the scene that would truly move the character into the new direction... it ends with the apparent death of the titular Swamp Thing.

As MC continues, The Anatomy Lesson is completely narrated by Jason Woodrue, the Floronic Man. To his surprise (and likely that of the loyal readership) none of Swamp Thing’s internal “organs” would or could ever be of any use... at least in the way they’re intended. They were “stuffing” … Swamp Thing thought itself to be Alec Holland, and as such grew what it thought it needed to truly be Alec Holland.

Jason Woodrue - the Floronic Man

Woodrue thinks on a study done with flatworms... which, in fact actually occurred (on our Earth) in 1960. Granted, we get the inch-deep mile-wide explanation of the subject... that is all we really need here. The planarian worms would be fed pieces of chopped up worm, with the theory being that the eaten worm’s memories/skillset would be transferred to the eater worms. As if one’s memories are physically imprinted on a being’s RNA. On our Earth, the results were hotly contested... though, the test would be conducted time and again, often with government funding.

MC’s thoughts on the take are primarily positive, though he draws mention how this flies in the face of earlier stories. As it turns out in the letters column for Saga of the Swamp Thing v2 #6, editor Len Wein states that “all of the stories published after issue #21 [of volume 1] never happened, that is, Alec never became predominantly human”.

Moore’s take on Marvelman, as MC mentions has similar “everything you thought you knew was wrong” elements. Not wanting to be totally beholden to what came before, however, not wanting to disregard it all either... the Silver-Age exploits of the Marvelman family were, as stated induced hallucinations. A perfect example of having one’s cake and eating it too.

MC closes out his missive with a brief mention of a Jack Kirby return to the Fourth World characters and concept. I’m thinking this is what leads to the Hunger Dogs, however, before going any deeper into that subject, I’m going to have to do a bit of homework.

That’s gonna do it for this installment. MC’s forum post, sadly, went unanswered. That’s the way things went back when you had to dial in... and not every day/week either. No worries however, MC wasn’t the only DC Comics fan to opine on the Anatomy Lesson. Next time, we will look at some more. As always, if you have any additions or corrections, please feel free to contact me in care of this website. Thank you for reading. (Don’t forget to check out the podcast!)


-Chris

Can't wait for the next installment in this series of articles? For more of Chris Sheehan, check out his highly recommended Chris is on Infinite Earths blog.

USENET Fandom - Fan reaction to John Byrne taking over Superman in the mid-80s: Byrne vs Bates and all about Power Girl

Before we had the World Wide Web, we had UseNet. Developed in 1980, UseNet allowed a collection of computer users to interconnect via dial-up modems and post messages onto newsgroups (which resemble BBSes). Anywhere and anytime comic fans are able to congregate, you know they will be exchanging opinions and ideas about comic books - particularly DC comic books. In today's segment, Chris Sheehan examines what online comic fans were saying about Crisis on Infinite Earths. Please note: usernames have been removed for privacy reasons.
 

Over the past several entries, we looked at SM’s discussion piece wherein he opines on the no-longer-rumor of John Byrne coming in to revitalize the Man of Steel for the complex 1980’s DC Comics fan. Today we will finish up looking at the conversation his post encouraged.

On October 10, 1985 prolific netterhack JM addresses our previous piece’s Negative-Nellie TM’s concerns when he posts:

JM brings up some good points. It’s odd hearing an observation of Byrne’s "nostalgia dredging" even some thirty odd years ago. That is one of the more common contemporary Byrne complaints, so finding that it was also a fan-concern in the mid-1980s is quite eye-opening. I echoed this same complaint during John Byrne’s unfortunate 2004 Doom Patrol revival, which saw the team returned to a more back-to-basics approach, which frustratingly attempted to cancel out all that came before it.

It appears JM is cautiously optimistic about Byrne’s impending arrival, comparing it to what writer Cary Bates has brought to the table over the past several years. From my time digging through the usenets and any historical accounts available, I've concluded that folks were kind of burnt out on the kind of pre-Crisis stories Mr. Bates was serving up. He was responsible for the overlong Trial of the Flash epic, which perhaps invited the sort of fan-malaise his name brought with it. Following the Crisis on Infinite Earths, Mr. Bates would take on the revitalized Captain Atom in a wonderful series.

The final response to SM’s initial missive comes to us from JG, who on October 24, 1985 had this to say about Power Girl:

Well, here’s a good one. I suppose we can look at this a couple of different ways.

First, let’s play it straight. JG’s opening line is oddly prescient, as it points out the post-Crisis Power Girl thinks she’s from Krypton. Initially during this era Power Girl did believe herself to be a relation to the Man of Steel. In the hotly discussed Secret Origins v2 #11 (1987), she finds herself onboard her symbio-ship... which appeared to have actually weathered the Crisis. She is an amnesiac with only the dimmest of memories of being raised on a sort of alien landscape. When she gives her ship the command to "find family", it zeroes in on Superman. It is, of course revealed that she is in actuality a descendant of the Lord of Atlantis himself, Arion, who had manipulated the situation to make Kara believe she was of Kryptonian heritage.

The Power Girl/Arion connection

Now with that out of the way, let’s take this on with the snark in which I feel it was intended. Ol’ JG is clearly having a bit of fun here referencing the whole nebulous Phoenix-Jean Grey dynamic over in Marvel’s X-Men.

Following Jean Grey’s apparent transformation into the Phoenix in Jamaica Bay, and later "darkening" and death, the X-Men were left without one of their founding members. When Marvel sought to expand the X-Men comics line with titles such as New Mutants and X-Factor, editorial had the idea to have the "original five" mighty mutants reassemble… the only problem was, Jean was dead. It was a hotly controversial and publicized death to boot, so it would certainly be a challenge to undo.

In issue #286 of Fantastic Four (1986), written by "You Know Who" (John Byrne wrote this, but left his name off perhaps to illustrate his disagreement with the proceedings), Jean Grey was found by the Fantastic Four and the Avengers alive and kicking in a Cocoon at the bottom of Jamaica Bay. As it would turn out the Phoenix Force and Jean Grey were two distinct beings rather than one in the same... this would assuage Jean of any of the guilt for the atrocities committed by the Phoenix entity, rendering her completely innocent and thereby "useable" once more. Well played there, JG... your snarky remark made me bust out some of my Marvel knowledge.

Jean Grey cocoon

That wraps up our coverage on SM’s John Byrne/The Man of Steel related entry (a subject that we will be sure to revisit). Next time we will be checking out the reaction to the arrival of another outsider to an established character, when we sit in for Alan Moore’s Anatomy Lesson from Swamp Thing #21. As I mentioned in our last several pieces... I know some corners of the interwebs have amazingly knowledgeable and passionate Superman fans, so if you have any additions or corrections, please feel free to contact me in care of this website. Thank you for reading.

-Chris

Can't wait for the next installment in this series of articles? For more of Chris Sheehan, check out his highly recommended Chris is on Infinite Earths blog.

USENET Fandom - Fan reaction to John Byrne taking over Superman in the mid-80s: Feel the Byrne

Before we had the World Wide Web, we had UseNet. Developed in 1980, UseNet allowed a collection of computer users to interconnect via dial-up modems and post messages onto newsgroups (which resemble BBSes). Anywhere and anytime comic fans are able to congregate, you know they will be exchanging opinions and ideas about comic books - particularly DC comic books. In today's segment, Chris Sheehan examines what online comic fans were saying about Crisis on Infinite Earths. Please note: usernames have been removed for privacy reasons.


Over the past several entries, we dove in on SM’s discussion piece wherein he opines on the no-longer-rumor of John Byrne coming in to revitalize the Man of Steel for the complex 1980’s DC Comics fan. Today we will check in with some more of the conversation his post encouraged.

On October 19, 1985 negative-nelly TM adds:

Here’s a good example of an oddly contextualized complaint, in the form of questioning another’s Bible-literacy. The more things change, right? Byrne’s initial mission statement, which appeared in Comic Buyer’s Guide #623 (July, 1986) simply states (and I’m paraphrasing a bit here) that if he wants to read about a "supremely powerful guy who never screws up" he’d read the Bible. This was a comment that wasn't really begging for a response. Perhaps then, as now... the mere mention of religion and/or the texts thereof give certain folks an itchy throat that just needs clearing. No need to dig any deeper with that complaint... on to the next...

Byrne’s Fantastic Four having only "a years-worth of good stories" is a perfectly reasonable opinion to have. It has been many years since I made my way through it, though upon reflection, I would have to disagree with TM’s assessment. I may be more of a Byrne-booster (or victim, depending on one's mileage and vernacular), but I felt as though throughout much of the Fantastic Four run, he was able to keep things rather fresh. He renamed the Invisible Girl the Invisible Woman and made her a force to be reckoned with, he had a fantastic (pun intended) Galactus tale which led into the thought-provoking and controversial Trial of Galactus storyline. He shook up the team roster following Secret Wars with She-Hulk replacing the Thing. I’m not saying TM is necessarily wrong, as quality is surely subjective... however, to say Byrne only had a years-worth of stories in him, is a bit difficult for me to swallow.

Next up, about a week or so later on October 23, 1985 JSDY offers:

Well, did continuity die with Crisis? I suppose there is an argument to be made for that. I feel, however, the Crisis was a way in which to make DC continuity a bit more linear than it had been. Whenever I read I pre-Crisis story, be it in single-issue or collected edition format... I’m never quite sure what "matters" or even what "mattered" at the time. You can think back to creators like Bob Haney (who actually had a World named after him in the DC Multiverse to explain away how many of his stories took place... because he did not care about continuity). One issue, Batman would have a secret brother... who would never be heard from again. Somehow, on Earth-1 Justice Society members were having team-ups with Justice Leaguers as though they always occupied the same Earth.

With Crisis, everything was brought into one Earth. Everything suddenly tied together... and (at least to me) mattered. It very much felt like (and this was cause for many a complaint) the early Marvel Universe. Apropos of nothing, whodathunk emoticons existed in the mid-1980’s?

To discuss his closing shot, World’s Finest Comics finished its FORTY-FIFTH year (books barely last 45 weeks these days) run with issue #323 (January, 1986) with Superman and Batman going their separate ways. Get this... Batman was upset at Superman, for his recklessness and impetuosity. This is the pre-Crisis, not yet powered-down Superman, here... a guy who can more than take care of himself. I’m pretty sure Bats was also upset that Superman was infringing on his turf of back alleys. I think I gotta agree with JSDY on this one. This really was an odd way to dissolve their almost half-century (our time) partnership.

With Crisis on Infinite Earths winding down and a brave new DC Universe in the offing, it was decided that Superman and Batman while coexisting wouldn’t be the bosom buddies they were before. Many of their meet-ups post-Crisis would feel fairly contentious. It would be almost two full decades before the next Superman/Batman team-up book... which was called, well... Superman/Batman and would run from 2003 until the dawning of the New-52 in mid-2011.

That’ll do it for this time. Next time we will conclude our coverage on the discussion prompted by SM’s post, including some more minor criticisms on Byrne and another Power Girl theory. As I mentioned in our last few pieces... I know some corners of the interwebs have amazingly knowledgeable and passionate Superman fans, so if you have any additions or corrections, please feel free to contact me in care of this website. Thank you for reading.

-Chris

Can't wait for the next installment in this series of articles? For more of Chris Sheehan, check out his highly recommended Chris is on Infinite Earths blog.

USENET fandom - more on Byrne's Superman revamp

Before we had the World Wide Web, we had UseNet. Developed in 1980, UseNet allowed a collection of computer users to interconnect via dial-up modems and post messages onto newsgroups (which resemble BBSes). Anywhere and anytime comic fans are able to congregate, you know they will be exchanging opinions and ideas about comic books - particularly DC comic books. In today's segment, Chris Sheehan examines what online comic fans were saying about Crisis on Infinite Earths. Please note: usernames have been removed for privacy reasons.

Over the past couple of entries, we dove in on SM’s discussion piece wherein he opines on the no-longer-rumor of John Byrne coming in to revitalize the Man of Steel for the complex 1980’s DC Comics fan. Today we will check in with some of the conversation his post encouraged.

On October 18, 1985, just three days after the initial post, one CF replied with:

As we discussed in the last entry, CF would not have to wait all that long to once more experience stories about the Phantom Zone and... "Supergirl". During the three-part Supergirl Saga starting in Superman v2 #21 (September, 1988), Byrne would sorta-kinda reintroduce both concepts. He would sadly have to wait quite a while for the reappearance of the one-true Krypto who would not show his snout until the Return to Krypton storyline that occurred in the year 2000.

DC would try to hold the Krypto-faithful over by including him as part of the Time Trapper’s pocket universe, and also as something of an Easter Egg several years later. Superman’s fav’rit fan, Bibbo Bibbowski, found a stray dog and hoped to name him Krypton after the home planet of his fav’rit sooperhero, but the fella he got to engrave the pup’s nametag only chiseled in the first six letters.

Eben and Sarah? What in the world? Okay. As it turns out, who we know as Jonathan and Martha Kent went through some naming-pains throughout their history. Originally they went by the names Sam and Molly, however, in 1942, a man by the name of George Lowther wrote a novel called The Adventures of Superman. In this novel, he named Superman’s adoptive parents Eben and Sarah Kent. These names would carry over to the Adventures of Superman 1950’s television series as well.

The names we are familiar with were introduced in the pages of Superboy stories in the early 1950’s. Their passing was covered in Superman #161 (May, 1963). As it turns out, shortly following Clark’s high school graduation, his adoptive parents take a trip to the Caribbean where they both contract a fatal tropical disease and pass in short order. Not the way you’d expect them to go... but, here we are.

The next day, October 19, 1985 RW piped in with the following:

Ai yai yai.

Power Girl is a toughie. Before the Crisis, Power Girl (Kara Zor-L) was Superman’s Kryptonian cousin. Sounds fairly reasonable. She shares a nearly identical origin to the Man of Steel, however, the rocket her parents loaded her into during the Fall of Krypton took much longer to arrive on Earth(2). Still, perfectly reasonable. She would go on to join up with the Justice Society of America, and becomes a full-fledged member when the Earth-2 Superman steps down.

Post-Crisis (and post-Man of Steel) the word came down that Superman was the sole survivor, the true last-son, of Krypton. Rather than shuffle Power Girl off to comic book limbo, DC Comics decided to tweak her character. The post-Crisis Power Girl believed herself to be the cousin of Superman, however, she was in fact now of Atlantean descent. She is told that she is related to the wizard Arion, of all people… further, in Secret Origins #11 (1987), she learns that she has been in suspended animation for thousands of years before waking out of it.

Secret Origins #11 (1987)

A couple of decades later due to the Infinite Crisis storyline, Kara’s Kryptonian heritage is finally reinstated. She reconnects with the Superman and Lois Lane of Earth-2, and plays a rather sizable role in the universe/continuity-shattering event.

That’s all we have room for this time, I try to keep these a reasonable (read: not overwhelming) length. Next time we will continue with discussion prompted by SM's initial post, including some umbrage taken with John Byrne's mention of the Bible. As I mentioned in our last couple of pieces... I know some corners of the interwebs have amazingly knowledgeable and passionate Superman fans, so if you have any additions or corrections, please feel free to contact me in care of this website. Thank you for reading.

-Chris

Can't wait for the next installment in this series of articles? For more of Chris Sheehan, check out his highly recommended Chris is on Infinite Earths blog.

Usenet Fandom - John Byrne's Superman part 2

Before we had the World Wide Web, we had UseNet. Developed in 1980, UseNet allowed a collection of computer users to interconnect via dial-up modems and post messages onto newsgroups (which resemble BBSes). Anywhere and anytime comic fans are able to congregate, you know they will be exchanging opinions and ideas about comic books - particularly DC comic books. In today's segment, Chris Sheehan examines what online comic fans were saying about Crisis on Infinite Earths. Please note: usernames have been removed for privacy reasons.

We now continue with our coverage of the coming of John Byrne to the Post-Crisis Superman titles. We rejoin SM’s October 15, 1985 post, "John Byrne/DC Rumor" with John Byrne’s Man of Steel plan.

Byrne’s "first six issues" is indeed the 1986 mini-series The Man of Steel, wherein Superman gets himself a brand-new origin story. One of the most interesting changes made, for me personally, was the introduction of the birthing-matrix concept. This adds a new wrinkle to Superman, as technically under this new origin, he was born on Earth. Byrne truly wanted to make Clark the “Last Son of Krypton”, making him special. As SM offers above, with all the Kryptonians running around, there are times in which it seems like Jor-El and Lara may have been the only casualties of the Fall of Krypton.

The Super-Pets are one of the odder silver-age concepts that, outside of Krypto, I never really dug. The exclusion of Superboy caused a bit of contention among fandom. The Pre-Crisis Superboy was in actuality Clark Kent, hence the tagline "The Adventures of Superman When he was a Boy". John Byrne took issue with these stories, because the outcome was never in question. A reader knows that Superboy will never die... because he will ultimately grow up to become Superman. Byrne actually coined the term "Superboy story" to refer to any flashback-y stories wherein the reader already knows the end-result. This also affected the Legion of Superheroes origin story, as they initially assembled in tribute to Superboy. No Superboy = No Legion, at least in theory. I’ll let it lay there, as we’ll likely visit the new Legion of Superheroes origin story in a future installment.

Legion of Super-Heroes and the Super-Pets

Supergirl, as she was known, did not reappear in the DC Universe until Superman/Batman #8 in May, 2004. Toward the end of John Byrne’s run, he would introduce "a" Supergirl, however, she was not a Kryptonian, instead she was a shape-shifting protoplasmic creature. Also toward the end of the Byrne run, the Phantom Zone was introduced. In fact, one of the more memorable Superman stories of the era concerned a group of Phantom Zone criminals.

Supergirl / Matrix

As for Byrne sticking around on his Marvel titles, that was short-lived. Per the Byrne Robotics FAQ, John and Marvel Editor-in-Chief, Jim Shooter, had an already rocky relationship... his taking on a non-Marvel book, as John says himself "was just one more nail in the coffin". Several stories that had already been approved were suddenly redrawn and rewritten following the announcement that Byrne would be directing the Superman ship. A pity, really. John Byrne’s Fantastic Four was more often than not a very fun read. I wasn’t totally onboard for his vision of the Incredible Hulk, however. If one good thing came out of this, it led us to the amazing Peter David run on the character. Marvel’s loss was DC’s gain as it wouldn’t be long before John was working on all three of the main Super titles: Superman, Adventures of Superman, and Action Comics (which was something of a Superman Team-Up book at the time).

That’s all for SM, and this entry. Next time we will look at the some of the discussion prompted by SM’s post. As I mentioned in our last article... I know some corners of the interwebs have amazingly knowledgeable and passionate Superman fans, so if you have any additions or corrections, please feel free to contact me in care of this website. Thank you for reading.

-Chris

Can't wait for the next installment in this series of articles? For more of Chris Sheehan, check out his highly recommended Chris is on Infinite Earths blog.

Usenet Fandom - John Byrne's Superman (1985)

Before we had the World Wide Web, we had UseNet. Developed in 1980, UseNet allowed a collection of computer users to interconnect via dial-up modems and post messages onto newsgroups (which resemble BBSes). Anywhere and anytime comic fans are able to congregate, you know they will be exchanging opinions and ideas about comic books - particularly DC comic books. In today's segment, Chris Sheehan examines what online comic fans were saying about Crisis on Infinite Earths. Please note: usernames have been removed for privacy reasons.

Taking a slight detour from our Crisis on Infinite Earths coverage, I thought it would be a fun idea to see what the fandom thought about the pending arrival of Marvel mainstay, John Byrne (Uncanny X-Men, Fantastic Four, Alpha Flight) to the DC landscape. Byrne was set to revolutionize Superman with his Man of Steel six-issue miniseries which would launch into Superman v2. This will likely be at least a two-part Usenet Fandom feature.

John Byrne's DC Comics arrival signaled the change in status quo for the character who people picture when they think "superhero". Many people think Byrne may have been brought in to "Marvelize" DC’s top dog. What that the case? Well, I suppose one’s mileage may vary. The "new" Superman was brought somewhat "down to Earth" insofar as his power set, and the stories felt as though there was a cohesive narrative that must be read sequentially in order to get the most out of it. Personally, I have a... limited knowledge of the Pre-Crisis Superman. I know he was much more powerful, and from what I’ve read, many his adventures felt as though they could be read in any order without sacrificing much in the way of understanding.

I definitely throw my hat into the "Byrne/Post-Crisis Superman Fan" club. With that out of the way, let's hop into the first half of a massive-missive by one "SM", "John Byrne/DC Rumor" dated October 15, 1985.

Let's start at the beginning, the reintroduction of Superman's cast of characters. Lana Lang, as mentioned by SM was romantically linked with Clark Kent just prior to the Crisis, during which time the two worked as co-anchors for WGBS-TV News. In the Pre-Crisis issues I've read, including, and perhaps especially the Mindy Newell/Gray Morrow Lois Lane two-parter: When it Rains, God is Crying, I could not help but feel the Clark/Lana relationship just felt wrong. The film, Superman III (1983), introduced Ms. Lang to a wider audience and may well have been the catalyst for their on-panel relationship. Following the Crisis, Lana appeared to be restored as Clark’s childhood friend. They loved each other, certainly... but Clark's love was more platonic than romantic. Lana would eventually marry another old friend of Clark’s (and future President of the United States) Pete Ross... Meaning Lana became more than just Clark’s "first lady".

The Kents being left alive was something I had always enjoyed. I felt as though they tethered Clark... kept him humble. He could save the world a million times over, yet at the end of the day, he was still Martha and Jonathon Kent's beloved boy. This was the way an entire generation of fans saw Clark’s family dynamic. The television shows Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman (1993) and Smallville (2001) both played up the parental angle as well.

The Superman/Batman dynamic took a turn for the contentious following the Crisis and Man of Steel. As quoted by Byrne, the two come from very different backgrounds and motivations. The Pre-Crisis World’s Finest appeared to be close friends, best friends even. Post-Crisis, Batman and Superman may have worked together from time to time but you didn’t really get the impression that they were all that chummy "off the clock".

The Justice League was a completely different animal post-Crisis, to the point where Superman (and Batman... and Wonder Woman) were removed from taking part in its founding. Wonder Woman was replaced by Black Canary as a JLA founder. The only member of the "Trinity" that would be part of the Post-Crisis/Legends Justice League would be Batman. Superman would eventually join just prior to the Death of Superman storyline.

Focusing on the "Man" more than the "Super" is perhaps what folks refer to as the "Marvelization" of Superman. Speaking personally, that is what drew me to this iteration of Superman. I want to see a Superman I can root for, one where the outcome is sometimes in doubt. This "new" Superman needed to breathe, that is to say... he couldn't be out of the Earth's atmosphere for extended periods. When he would eventually go into Exile, he carried with him a breathing apparatus. This Superman would also, depending on how you look at it... make mistakes. Let's just say the semi-recent Man of Steel (2013) film wasn't the first time Superman killed.

Superman... IN SPACE!

Byrne's take on Superman’s feelings of alienation are inspired. Clark Kent was indeed raised as a human. Although he has powers, all he knows is his human life. It feels as though the "alienation" angle is used fairly often these days. Superman as something of an outsider never really sat right with me, personally. I like to think of Superman as a man of the people. Even though he can perform amazing acts of strength and speed, he is still comfortable bellying up to a diner counter and drinking a cup of coffee with friends and strangers. The idea that Clark would not discover his heritage until over four-years into this launch is amazing. That was truly a surprise to read.

Next time we will look at the rest of SM's (who I promise is not short for SuperMan) post, and perhaps some of the discussion prompted by it. I know some corners of the interwebs have amazingly knowledgeable and passionate Superman fans, so if you have any additions or corrections, please feel free to contact me in care of this web-site. Thank you for reading.

-Chris



Recommended reading:

• Chris is on Infinite Earths reviews Lois Lane #1 (1986) and Lois Lane #2 (1986)
• Byrne gets to re-write Kryptonian history in The World of Krypton mini-series (1987)

Can't wait for the next installment in this series of articles? For more of Chris Sheehan, check out his highly recommended Chris is on Infinite Earths blog.

Usenet Fandom - Marv Wolfman leaves DC (1985)

Before we had the World Wide Web, we had UseNet. Developed in 1980, UseNet allowed a collection of computer users to interconnect via dial-up modems and post messages onto newsgroups (which resemble BBSes). Anywhere and anytime comic fans are able to congregate, you know they will be exchanging opinions and ideas about comic books - particularly DC comic books. In today's segment, Chris Sheehan examines what online comic fans were saying about Crisis on Infinite Earths. Please note: usernames have been removed for privacy reasons.

What follows is a strange one.  It's not so much Crisis related insofar as the finer story points, yet if it were to come to pass things the post-Crisis DC Universe may have rolled out much, much differently.

LY offers the following in "Marv Wolfman leaves DC" dated March 18, 1985:

I’m not even sure where to start with this one.  Let’s start at the start, I suppose.

Okay, so Marv Wolfman is not only returning to Marvel... he was, in actuality placed inside DC by Marvel.  How scandalous... am I right?  Marvel had the perfect plan... send Marv to DC Comics, have him destroy their comics universe... and then bail!  It’s patently brilliant!  Guess all those Marvel staffers who refer to Jim Shooter as evil were on to something!  Hmm, who was one of Shooter’s harshest critics?  Marv Wolfman.  Everything’s coming together!

Chris Claremont being offered a six-figure salary to jump ship?  Hmm, I’m not sure I buy that.  Wasn’t Mr. Claremont buying airplanes for family members at this point in his career?  A simple six-fig salary offer probably wouldn't coerce him to up his roots. Okay okay, let’s just say that this is true... I suppose this could have been one way for Claremont to side-step Secret Wars II.  Hmm, maybe this has a bit of truth to it.  Would Chris Claremont try to resurrect Terra?  I suppose it’s possible.  First, however Beast Boy would have to meet, date, and marry a girl who looked suspiciously like her.  Terra would return, and join a new group of Tita... err, waitasec... Did an alternate universe Chris Claremont unwittingly create the Team Titans?

A Warner Bros cartoon character joining the post-Crisis Justice League?  Hmm, I read the foreword to the Justice League: A New Beginning trade paperback by Keith Giffen.  He writes that there were certain DC characters he could not use... He even had to use a non-Hal Jordan Green Lantern.  There just happens to be a Warner character who is an official unofficial member of the Green Lantern Corps.

Yes, this actually happened in 2003

Dick Giordano’s plans to create a "What if?" series, featuring pre-Crisis heroes... Waitasec... In our second Usenet Fandom installment, "RN" and his local comic shop owner had an idea along these lines.  Could they be in on this?  Would Marv Wolfman’s departure get Superman his long awaited TIME Magazine cover?  Did Marv screw Supes by staying?

Okay, in all seriousness... I think we may be on to something here… just gotta do some more digging.  Just need to filter the newsgroup just so... Need to find anything I can on the April 1985 edition of The Comics Journal.

Here we go!  JB’s got the dirt.  In the post "Fanzine Notes" dated March 28, 1985 he offers:

Oh.

Never mind then.

I guess April Fool’s gags were always part of the fandom.  Careful surfing today...

We'll dig back in to our Crisis Coverage next time.  If you have any additions or corrections (perhaps Marv really did leave DC mid-Crisis... if you know something we don't, please share!), feel free to contact me in care of this website.  Thank you for reading.

-Chris

Can't wait for the next installment in this series of articles? For more of Chris Sheehan, check out his highly recommended Chris is on Infinite Earths blog. 

PLEASE NOTE: Everything written in this entry that isn't italicized was written by Chris Sheehan. If you want to attribute any of this work, please credit Chris Sheehan.

Usenet Fandom - more Crisis on Infinite Earths

Before we had the World Wide Web, we had UseNet. Developed in 1980, UseNet allowed a collection of computer users to interconnect via dial-up modems and post messages onto newsgroups (which resemble BBSes). Anywhere and anytime comic fans are able to congregate, you know they will be exchanging opinions and ideas about comic books - particularly DC comic books. In today's segment, Chris Sheehan examines what online comic fans were saying about Crisis on Infinite Earths. Please note: usernames have been removed for privacy reasons.

Today's piece is a special one. We will hear from "JF" about his thoughts, not only on Crisis on Infinite Earths, but the circumstances surrounding several of the heavy-hitters in the DC Universe at the time. In a long and vague post titled "Ramblings:long & vague" dated February 24, 1985 he offers the following*:




Let's start with Green Lantern. As Crisis began, John Stewart was growing into his role as a Green Lantern. In issue #188 of the Green Lantern title, John actually "outed" himself... removing his domino mask, and going public. JF did ask for Hal to turn rebel, well... Hal doesn’t see a change of attitude, however, we do find ourselves with a rebel lantern. Steve Englehart brings back Guy Gardner in Green Lantern #196. It may be argued that this book was in the midst of an identity crisis around this point. Following the Crisis, it was re-titled Green Lantern Corps and featured several lanterns, rather than just Hal or John. It is somewhat commonly known that Hal Jordan is a notable absence from Crisis on Infinite Earths. Hal does not make a single appearance in the maxi-series.

Now, onto ol' Barry. I cannot find anything to substantiate this, however it appears as though everyone figured out that it would be the Flash who would "bite it". I'll need to do some more digging to see if it was common knowledge that there would be significant "big hero" deaths. His own series continued well into the Crisis before ending with issue #350 (which arrived in shops the same month as Crisis on Infinite Earths #7, which may just have been significant itself...). In the lead-up to the Flash finale, Barry Allen was facing jail time for the murder of Zoom. This was quite an overlong story arc, so long in fact that DC Comics recently released it… not as a trade paperback... but as a Showcase Presents Edition. The entire 592-page epic hit in a black and white bookshelf behemoth in 2011. The Trial of the Flash will absolutely have its own Usenet Fandom installments as we roll on. Suffice it to say, it was long and not well-received.

Both Crisis on Infinite Earths #7 (left) and Flash #350 (right) hit the shelves at the same time:

"The kid with the wings" in Teen Titans JF is discussing is likely Azrael. No, not that Azrael. He first made his presence felt during the first year of the "Baxter" series of the New Teen Titans abducting sorta-kinda team-member, Lilith Clay. The two fall in love, though their romance is short-lived. Lilith leaves Azrael behind when she goes in search of her parents. Azrael winds up falling in with the Brother Blood Cult. One must wonder if the two were paired as a play on "Lilith and Azazel".

The "wedding issue" Tales of the Teen Titans #50 featured the nuptials of Donna Troy and longtime beau (and milquetoast sap) Terry Long. It was a wonderful quiet issue, and was a celebration not only of Donna and Terry, but of the Titans as a family.

Azrael and Lilith Clay (with Starfire in hot pursuit)

From letters columns of the era, it appears that JF is not alone in feeling that running two Titans titles concurrently was a "money hungry" move for DC Comics. It was, in actuality an attempt at producing Direct Market only fare, utilizing some of their biggest sellers at the time. Along with New Teen Titans, the Legion of Super-Heroes and The Outsiders all received "Baxter" paper upgrades. Rather than leave newsstand fans out in the cold, DC added "Tales of..." to the newsstand titles and ran both simultaneously. The newsstand editions would re-run the Baxter stories for the newsstand crowd one year after their original publication, eventually rendering these titles "reprint only".



That’s all for today, but we’ve only scratched the surface. There is plenty more Crisis curiosity ahead. If you have any additions or corrections, please feel free to contact me in care of this web-site. Thank you for reading.

-Chris

*Please note that this post was somewhat heavily edited to omit JF's thoughts on non-DC Comics properties.


Can't wait for the next installment in this series of articles? For more of Chris Sheehan, check out his highly recommended Chris is on Infinite Earths blog.
 
PLEASE NOTE: All sentences written on this page that aren't italicized were written by Chris Sheehan. If you want to attribute any of this work, please credit Chris Sheehan.

Usenet Fandom - Crisis on Infinite Earths p2

Before we had the World Wide Web, we had UseNet. Developed in 1980, UseNet allowed a collection of computer users to interconnect via dial-up modems and post messages onto newsgroups (which resemble BBSes). Anywhere and anytime comic fans are able to congregate, you know they will be exchanging opinions and ideas about comic books - particularly DC comic books. In today's segment, Chris Sheehan examines what online comic fans were saying about Crisis on Infinite Earths. Please note: usernames have been removed for privacy reasons.

Continuing with our Crisis on Infinite Earths predictions and discussion...

On January 15, 1985 "RN" offered:

I think we just met the true brains behind Marvel’s New Universe line of comics.  I gotta wonder if Jim Shooter was browsing Usenet in early 1985.  In case the above manifesto proves too difficult to parse, I believe RN (and the owner of his comic store) is suggesting is for DC to not just reboot… not just scrap everything and start over… but to… just scrap everything.

Throwing the babies out with the bathwater, DC would launch a new universe of titles.  Superman and Batman?  Dead… Gone.  The DC Universe?  No such thing in RN’s Post-Crisis world.  DC can revisit those heroes in an occasional graphic novel, but not in any serialized form… no worries though, Superman might get the cover of TIME Magazine out of it….

 

In the interest of fairness, there were two responses I was able to salvage from this post.  First, from "NC" dated January 22, 1985 (yes, an entire week went by before another user came along)…

Okay, so "NC" is on board… He will miss Swamp Thing and Blue Devil, however.  Swamp Thing, it should go without saying was one of DC Comics’ most critically acclaimed books.  Then, as now, Internet acclaim does not always translate into sales.  A sales chart dated 11/22/85 shows Swamp Thing as selling 25,000 copies per month, placing it in the bottom third of DC’s monthly output.  Blue Devil only fared moderately better, selling 29,300 units.  Blue Devil was an interesting concept that, in my opinion, really fit the "NEW DC" branding.  It was a very fun book to follow while it lasted, and had such a fresh feeling when compared to many of the "old guard" DC books of the vintage.

All told, "NC's" reply was cordial and pleasant… it’s certainly a refreshing change from what we currently see on message boards.  Let’s see the next (and final) reply I was able to salvage…

On January 25, 1985 "QH" chimes in with:

Well… I suppose the more things change... I had to make sure that date was actually 1985 and not 2015.

That's all for today but have no fear, we’ve got plenty more Crisis on Infinite Earths fun to come.  If you have any additions or corrections, please feel free to contact me in care of this web-site.  Thank you for reading.

-Chris


Can't wait for the next installment in this series of articles? For more of Chris Sheehan, check out his highly recommended Chris is on Infinite Earths blog. 

PLEASE NOTE: All words written on this page that aren't italicized were written by Chris Sheehan. If you want to attribute any of this work, please credit Chris Sheehan.