Wonder Woman in the 80s: the Dan Mishkin run

Wonder Woman is one of those titles I've always wanted to 'dive into' but never had the opportunity -- mainly because my early collection of DC comics contained a hodgepodge of Wonder Woman comics from different eras (i.e.,  a few pre-Crisis issues, a few post-Crisis issues, a few early 90s issues, a few post-Zero Hour issues, etc). Sure, I have a 'functional' knowledge of Wonder Woman -- from what I've picked up from Super Friends episodes and Justice League of America comics -- but it always seemed too daunting to read her books since I knew her history (and powers) had been retconned a few times too many. For this article, I'm going to ignore all that, just dive into it and simply accept it all at face value. This is where I actually sit down and read a whole run of consecutive Wonder Woman issues and give an honest-to-god review. This will be my FIRST time reading this, so I really have no preconceived opinions or biases here.


A bit of background:

Dan Mishkin took over as writer for Wonder Woman in mid-1982. Previously, it was Roy Thomas writing Wonder Woman, but he needed to drop the title due to his hectic schedule. Mishkin started scripting over Thomas's plots for issues #295 and #296, and by issue #297 he was THE writer on the title. Marv Wolfman became the editor of Wonder Woman just as Mishkin was becoming the main writer on the series.

You might recognize Mishkin as the co-creator (along with Gary Cohn) of Amethyst and Blue Devil -- and you'd be correct -- but these came AFTER Mishkin started on Wonder Woman. At this point, Mishkin had worked with Cohn on material for DC's mystery/horror/supernatural anthology titles (i.e., House of Mystery, Unexpected, Ghosts, Weird War Tales) and a few one-off stories for Flash, Green Lantern and Jonah Hex. It's safe to say that Mishkin was still an 'unknown' to comic fandom when he took over Wonder Woman.

When Mishkin took over the title, the Joey Cavalieri/Joe Staton Huntress back-ups were already in full swing -- you were only getting 16 to 18 pages of Wonder Woman per issue (which may been a bonus or a nuisance, depending on who you ask). A few readers had even speculated that Wonder Woman's sales would drop if the Huntress back-up feature had been taken away. Since this is a Wonder Woman review, the Huntress back-up features will be reviewed at another time.

When Mishkin picked up Wonder Woman, he was finishing up a story arc Thomas started about video games that were taking control of players and turning them into zombies for General Electric (a 1970s Sandman villain). Wonder Woman was at a good place by this point. Readers wrote in expressing excitement for the 'sensational new' Wonder Woman -- as of issue #288, the series had received an updated logo, a new writer who seemed to know his Wonder Woman history (Roy Thomas), a new penciller (Gene Colan), and her costume had gotten a slight update. According to fans, the book was definitely on an upswing. Issue #297 would be Mishkin's proving grounds.

Wonder Woman v1 #297 (1982). Dan Mishkin's first issue. Beautiful Mike Kaluta cover.

It's important to note that Gene Colan was the penciller on Mishkin's first eight issues. Colan's contribution to the book should NOT be overlooked -- Colan becoming penciller at issue #288 brought a surge of renewed interest to the book (if nothing else for the new readers who just wanted to check out his art).

Gene Colan art from Wonder Woman v1 #298 (1982)

Unfortunately, Mishkin's first story arc gets interrupted by a 16-page Masters of The Universe comic book preview insert. (I say 'unfortunately', but this may have actually encouraged more comic fans to pick up the issue due to the MOTU insert.) Regardless, we're introduced to a NEW Wonder Woman foe and a plot to destroy the Amazons on Paradise Island in a three-issue story arc. There's a bit of info about Themiscyra and we get a bit of a mythology lesson about Bellerophon and Pegasus. Mishkin also throws in some reminders that America was still in a cold war with Russia, and that Diana is still an accomplished fighter pilot. All in all, I enjoyed this story arc and quickly dove into the next issues. This leads us to the 300th issue of Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman #300 v1 (1983) wrap-around cover by Ed Hannigan and Dick Giordano

The 300th issue is a 72-page landmark issue -- with contributions from about a dozen different pencillers and inkers -- all written by Roy and Danette Thomas. Before he left, Thomas had already written Wonder Woman #300, and advanced solicitations dropped the big spoiler that Wonder Woman would accept Steve Trevor's marriage proposal. This was the first appearance of Lyta Trevor (who later becomes Fury from Infinity Inc.), and the Sandman (Garrett Sanford) plays a big supporting role in this story. Mishkin had no part in this issue. Thankfully, everything returns to status quo before we move onto Wonder Woman #301.

Issue #301 has Wonder Woman hanging out on Paradise Island with the rest of the Amazons. We're seeing a lot more of this under Mishkin's creative direction -- he's really bringing Wonder Woman back to her Greek roots. It's a set-up for a new story arc -- this time about the previous Amazon who held the title of 'Wonder Woman'. I found this story to be very well-written and intriguing. Mishkin knows how to set the pace to keep things mysterious. I'm enjoying this very much. (As it happens, Wonder Woman #301 is also around the same time when Mishkin and Gary Cohn debuted their Amethyst preview story in Legion of Super-Heroes #298.)

Gene Colan art from Wonder Woman #301 (1983)

Wonder Woman issues #303 and #304 features a super-villain who last appeared in a Green Lantern story written by Marv Wolfman. This is somewhat fitting, since Wolfman was the editor on Wonder Woman by this point. I always enjoy stories that have another hero's villain cross-over to another character's title, so Mishkin's run is batting 1000 as far as I'm concerned. Ernie Colon takes over as editor in issue #304.

Wonder Woman #303 (1983): In today's edition of 'Guess that Green Lantern villain'...
Art by Gene Colan

The next issue (#305) in this run has Wonder Woman battling Circe (one of her more 'classic' rogues) and reminds us that Wonder Woman has a four-decade-long legacy with her own rogues gallery. So far, it would appear that Mishkin is managing to keep Wonder Woman contemporary (and not campy) while still respecting her roots.

Starting with issue #306, Don Heck becomes the new penciller AND inker (replacing Gene Colan). Colan's art is very moody and atmospheric (see: Marvel's Tomb of Dracula), while Heck has very crisp lines and makes it feels like a bright and cheerful 'super hero' comic. Colan also had the tendency to use a lot of BIG panels in his stories -- making them feel a lot shorter than their allotted 18 pages.

Panels from Wonder Woman #306 (1983). Art by Don Heck.

Issue #306 also begins to see Wonder Woman's support characters getting more exposure -- Etta Candy, Steve Trevor, Phillip Darnell, Keith Griggs, Lisa Abernathy  -- they're all in here taking part in one of the most confusing cold war espionage thrillers I've ever read. It would seem that Mishkin is trying to build on Wonder Woman's strong supporting cast and show readers more of Diana's personality. I'm seeing a strong trend towards realism and depth in Mishkin's work. While I couldn't understand the conclusion to the cold war spy thriller, I still thought this story arc had strong character development and I was interested enough to keep reading. 

So far, at this point into Mishkin's run, readers had written in asking to see: more about Diana's ties to her Amazon heritage, appearances from her old rogues, and more attention to her support characters. For anyone keeping score, Mishkin has delivered on all three.

Next up, there's a two-issue story arc (#308 - #309) in which she teams up with the Black Canary and Elongated Man (reinforcing her ties as a Justice Leaguer). I had trouble maintaining interest in this story arc -- partly because Mishkin put all of the interesting sub-plots he'd brewing up on hold, and partly because I was more interested in Wonder Woman's civilian life and interactions with her support characters (I wasn't kidding when I said his characterization was really really good). Additionally, issue #308 was when Ernie Colon left as editor on Wonder Woman to illustrate Amethyst v1 (also written by Mishkin and Cohn) and to work on his science fiction graphic novel (see: The Medusa Chain). Alan Gold becomes the new editor in issue #309.

Panels from Wonder Woman #308 (1983). Art by Don Heck.

Issue #310 features more Greek mythology. I'm feeling that Mishkin is taking some creative liberties with his recounting of Greek myths, but it's adding to the Wonder Woman lore and fills us in on the mysterious origin of the 'previous Wonder Woman' -- so hey, I'm enjoying this. Mark Beachum is the guest penciller on this issue and Pablo Marcus inks.

panels from Wonder Woman #310 (1983). Art by Mark Beachum and Pablo Marcus.

A major obstacle with writing Wonder Woman was deciding what to do with her love interest, Steve Trevor. Readers had polarized views on Trevor's role in the series -- some felt that he was crucial to Wonder Woman and her love for him was the only tie to man's world, while other readers felt he was boring as hell and should get killed off (again). Mishkin took the higher ground here and tried to turn Steve Trevor into a character fans would care about...

...as demonstrated in issue #311 when Steve Trevor narrates the story. This two-issue story arc had Wonder Woman solving a sci-fi/supernatural mystery which I didn't expect to enjoy as much as I did.

The supernatural force that is destroying jet fighters in mid-air is... [dramatic pause]... gremlins. That is correct, folks. Gremlins. Coincidentally, I was about to put the finishing touches on this review and publish it, when I discovered Brian Cronin of CBR posted an article of his own about this. Cronin points out that Mishkin added the whole 'gremlins' several months BEFORE the movie Gremlins was released, which just happens to be a HUGE coincidence. The Gremlins in Mishkin's story gave off a friendly, helpful Smurf-like vibe as opposed to the type of creatures that may or may not devour a human infant from the Gremlins film.

That's right. Gremlins.
panel from Wonder Woman #310 (1984). art by Don Heck.

As an added bonus, the long-running "Will she reveal her secret identity to Steve Trevor? Or won't she?" subplot that had been running *forever* finally gets resolved. By the end of it all, this sci-fi story ends with Wonder Woman getting a new side-kick/supporting character... who is a Gremlin.

Issues #313 and 314 have Wonder Woman battling Circe (again). In the background, the plot thickens as it is revealed that Wonder Woman had memories erased by her mother, Hippolyta. A new villain is introduced: Tezcatlipoca -- a chieftain of the Aztec Gods. Issues #315 and #316 are spent battling Tezcatlipoca. For anyone who's curious, Blue Devil #1 (created and written by Dan Mishkin and Gary Cohn) was released around the same time as Wonder Woman #316 -- Mishkin is now the regular writer on three DC books (i.e., Wonder Woman, Amethyst and Blue Devil).

introducing... Tezcatlipoca!
panel from Wonder Woman #314 (1984). art by Don Heck.

I can appreciate Mishkin introducing a NEW god-like threat that isn't based on a Greek mythological figure, but once again, I'm eagerly waiting to find out what memories Diana's mother had stolen from her and I'm wondering if Mishkin is deliberately stalling because he hasn't written that far ahead in the plot, yet. (ha!) We are giving a few tidbits of info... like Steve Trevor had already died -- which makes me even more eager to discover who this current Steve Trevor is...


Issue #317 is filled with even more revisions to Amazon mythology -- we are introduced to a 'lost' tribe of South American Amazons:

panels from Wonder Woman #317 (1984). Art by Don Heck and Rick Magyer.

Wonder Woman #318 was a Kurt Busiek and Irv Novick fill-in issue -- so I'll be skipping over this one. Editor Alan Gold revealed that it was planned to occur out-of-continuity, and meant to give Mishkin and Heck a breather. It doesn't mean that we can't appreciate the cover, however:

Wonder Woman #318 (1984). Cover by Eduardo Barreto

And this brings us to issue #319. This... this is what I've been waiting for! Some answers at last! But first, we need to deal with the dramatic return of Dr Cyber -- a Wonder Woman villain I had little familiarity with but was always genuinely curious about. The next few issues deal with more Cold War intrigue as Dr Cyber steals the launch codes for America's nuclear warheads and Wonder Woman narrowly averts World War III.

Dr Cyber finally gets the drop on Wonder Woman.
panel from Wonder Woman #320. Art by Don Heck and Rick Magyar.

In issue #322, after a climactic battle with Dr Cyber, the entire 'missing memories and the mysterious death(s) of Steve Trevor' storyline wraps up. I wasn't aware at the time of reading this, but the mysterious return of Steve Trevor had been an unresolved plotline in Wonder Woman's continuity that had been running since 1980 -- and it wasn't even the first time the writers had killed Steve Trevor and brought him back to life! (Which is probably the most telling detail of how badly Wonder Woman's continuity was messed up.)

For the curious: the answer involves parallel earths, which gives us a bit of foreshadowing to the upcoming Crisis On Infinite Earths. The living and breathing Steve Trevor we see now accidentally came from a parallel reality and crash landed into this reality. After a lot of exposition and a fistfight, Steve Trevor is ultimately restored to his 'whole' self after merging with Aphrodite's son, Eros.

...yeah, I'm still kinda unclear on all of this.

What the hell? From Wonder Woman #322.

Issue #322 was the first issue in a long time with NO Huntress back-up, just 23 pages of Wonder Woman. This may have also been the kiss of death on this series, since Wonder Woman #322 was the last monthly issue and would be published bi-monthly starting with issue #323.

Issue #323 was quite possibly the funnest issue of Wonder Woman Mishkin had written in a while. There were a lot of Wonder Woman villains in this one (ex: Angle Man, Silver Swan, Cheetah, Dr Psycho), Etta gets Wonder Woman powers, the Monitor and Harbinger make an appearance (it was an unofficial Crisis on Infinite Earths tie-in), and there's a bit of romantic tension building between Diana and Keith Griggs. According to editor Alan Gold, this story was originally pitched by Mishkin to be several issues long, but Gold asked Mishkin to keep it contained within one issue to give readers a break from long, complicated storylines.

panels from Wonder Woman #323 (1985). Art by Don Heck

According to editor Alan Gold, like all DC writers at the time, Mishkin was obliged to add Harbinger and the Monitor to Wonder Woman's regular continuity in issue #323, quite possibly without really knowing what the aftermath of Crisis On Infinite Earths would be or what the Monitor was all about. (I personally love reading about editorial curve-balls that were thrown at writers and how they dealt with them.) Hence, we get a Monitor who is more or less a power-broker for villains -- which is how he was introduced in the Teen Titans books:

panels from Wonder Woman #323 (1985). Art by Don Heck

To conclude Mishkin's run, issues #324 and #325 featured the return of the Atomic Knight -- a DC sci-fi character that first debuted in the sixties, ran in about twenty stories, took a twelve year hiatus, and re-appeared in 1983's DC Comics Presents #57 (also written by Mishkin and Cohn). After Mishkin left the title, the Atomic Knight no longer appeared in Wonder Woman... but that's okay because we'd see Atomic Knight reappear again in 1985's Outsiders v2.

re-introducing...the Atomic Knight! panels from Wonder Woman #324.

These were 'bridging issues' meant to bridge Mindy Newell as the new writer (much in the same way Roy Thomas had done for Mishkin). Mishkin's last issue of Wonder Woman would be #325. Mishkin was nice enough to write 'Glitch' (the gremlin sidekick that Steve Trevor befriends back in issue #311) out of the series, and Newell was freed up to take the series in the direction she chose to. Curiously, a new female supporting character, Lieutenant Lauren Haley, is added to the roster -- and I'm wondering if this was at Newell's request because it's kinda late in the game for Mishkin to be throwing in new characters...

introducing Lieutenant Lauren Haley. Wonder Woman #325.

This more or less concludes Dan Mishkin's run on Wonder Woman. It was announced in issue #324 that Mindy Newell would be succeeding Dan Mishkin.

Following Wonder Woman #325, Mindy Newell took over writing chores for the title. The letters column hinted that Newell had big plans for Steve Trevor and Wonder Woman, and a few great storylines of her own dealing with Hippolyta and her son... but alas, these never saw print. The series ended four issues later at issue #329. Curiously, Newell decided to finish up the Tezcatlipoca storyline after Mishkin left, which built up to and was immediately followed up by an official Crisis On Infinite Earths tie-in. The last issue of this series (a Crisis tie-in) was written by Gerry Conway.

Following the last issue of the series, Trina Robbins wrote a four-part Wonder Woman mini-series meant to satiate Wonder Woman fans while they tried to figure out their next move -- because, really, I don't think THEY even knew what was happening next:

(from Wonder Woman #325)

By issue #323 (after the title went bi-monthly), it was pretty much known by fans that the Wonder Woman series was in trouble.  I'm wondering if Mishkin knew that the writing was on the wall for this series by this point? In issue #327, readers KNEW that sales on Wonder Woman were really poor. From this point on, every Tom, Dick & Harry wrote in to suggest how to save the series or who to blame for faltering sales. Many readers felt that nothing, short of killing her off and starting all over again, could resolve Wonder Woman's messy continuity. A recurring suggestion was that there weren't enough *good* guest stars and why couldn't Wonder Woman make an appearance in [insert title of best selling comic here]? Finally, a lot of readers complained that Don Heck's sub-par art was responsible for bringing the series down (ouch!).

As hard as editor Alan Gold tried, Wonder Woman just didn't have enough of a readership to justify a Wonder Woman Special.

A recurring theme in Mishkin's run is that the readers were hard to please; some absolutely adored the supporting cast, some wanted them all killed off. Some readers wanted Wonder Woman fighting more super-villains and to feature less mythological characters, while other readers wanted more mythology and Amazons in Wonder Woman's title. Some long-time readers just didn't like the way Mishkin was handling the book, in general. Most notably, Mishkin "gets into it" with Wonder Woman super-fan, Carol Strickland, in the letter column of Wonder Woman #321 with a two-page letter that editor Alan Gold felt was worth printing in it's entirety.

To break it down, Strickland wasn't satisfied with:

1) The sexism in Mishkin's Wonder Woman stories,

2) Mishkin's treatment of Queen Hippolyta,

3) Mishkin's Artermis sub-plot,

4) A few details about Wonder Woman's powers, history and abilities that Mishkin may or may not have gotten wrong, and

5) Wonder Woman's new gremlin sidekick, "Glitch"

I don't necessarily believe that Strickland spoke for ALL die-hard Wonder Woman fans, but she DID reiterate a few points that had come up in the letter column before. She was also coming at this from the perspective of a fan who lived and breathed Wonder Woman, and had a much better grasp on her history than I did. (I mean, had I been reading Wonder Woman since the seventies, I probably would've felt as strongly as Strickland did.) To his credit, Mishkin replied gracefully to Strickland's feedback and handled it like a pro -- while he did agree with her on a lot of her points, he also did remind her that Wonder Woman's continuity is rife with inconsistencies and that he's doing the best he possibly can with the assignment he was given.

[By the way, Carol Strickland is still very much alive and active online, and we hope to grab an interview with her someday soon.]

Ultimately, it was editor Alan Gold who blamed Wonder Woman's disappointing sales on "a bad rep because of lackluster fabulation over the years. That bad rep is what we're up against, I think." (Wonder Woman #324, letter column)

----

As someone who already knew the basics of Wonder Woman (i.e., daughter of Hippolyta, came from Paradise Island, lived among Amazons, had a love interest with Steve Trevor, a good friend named Etta Candy, lasso of truth, her alter ego was Diana Prince) this wasn't the worst jumping on point and I was able to pick up the story pretty quickly.

Due to the luxury of owning all twenty-something issues of Mishkin's run, I had no trouble keeping track of what was going on. While these were really good story arcs, if you missed a few issues, you were kinda lost. With the exception of Wonder Woman #323, none of the stories were 'one-and-dones'. (Which is probably why I don't think I've EVER seen a Mishkin Wonder Woman story appear in a Wonder Woman anthology.)

Ed Hannigan and Dick Giordano cover

I really really enjoyed the ex-Wonder Woman story line Mishkin wove up. Same with the 'missing memories about Steve Trevor' thing. There were lots of things happening with the support characters, too -- even Etta is included in a subplot. I saw some strong character development, and at some points I was more interested in the subplots involving the supporting characters more so than the main story at hand.

The entire 'Etta getting Wonder Woman powers' reminded me of the crazy days of the Silver Age of DC when just about anything could happen thanks to 'imaginary stories'. Wonder Woman #323 is probably the most memorable issue among Wonder Woman fans, just for the sake of Etta getting to play the 'superhero' of the story for once.

Wonder Woman is a larger-than-life figure, a Greek goddess (sorta) who has immense power. Almost like a DC comics counterpart to Marvel's Thor, perhaps. So, she SHOULD be in big EPIC stories and not battling street crime.

Another distinct thing about Wonder Woman... well, what is she? Is she an adventurer? A soldier? A mythological hero? A fighter pilot? An Amazon trying to understand man's world? A superhero? An emissary sent to protect mankind from itself? Well, she's all of these things. You can more or less fit Wonder Woman into any type of story you want. While Roy Thomas' prior run saw Wonder Woman having a lot of adventures with other super-heroes, it seemed like Mishkin wanted to explore her mythological ties. Also, I don't remember ever seeing as many skeletons as I have in Mishkin's run -- maybe a nod to the supernatural/horror stories he'd been writing in House Of Mystery?

Frank Miller and Dick Giordano cover

I felt that Mishkin wrote a 'very strong' Wonder Woman -- a 'woman of the eighties'. No-nonsense. Knows what she wants, what she's fighting for, has principles and values, upholds the American ideals. Characterization is key, and Mishkin's characters had loads of it.

---

Two subplots that never saw resolution:

Why does Sofia look like Diana Prince? Sofia was introduced WAY BACK in Wonder Woman #297 (Mishkin's first solo issue) as a terrorist that Wonder Woman rescues and "reforms" to become an Amazon. Over the course of Mishkin's run, Sofia becomes more ingrained in Amazon culture and even discovers Hippolyta's cover up to keep memories from Diana.

panels from Wonder Woman #322. Sophia is the woman in the green blouse. Compare to Wonder Woman. Hmmm...

Sofia last appears in the series at issue #322 (just before the Atomic Knight team-up) and decides to 'stay' on Paradise Island. My guess was that Sofia was originally introduced to somehow play into the post-Crisis Wonder Woman pitch Mishkin had been rumored to have proposed, but was written out of the story when Mishkin's proposal was refused.


A second unresolved subplot involved Diana Prince (Wonder Woman's alter ego) and Major Keith Griggs becoming an "item". The storyline was cut short due to the series only lasting four more issues after Mishkin left:

panels from Wonder Woman #323 (1985). Art by Don Heck

This concludes my review of Dan Mishkin's Wonder Woman run. I don't believe it's been reprinted as a TPB yet, so if you want to seek it out, you'll need to pick up the back issues like I did.



-Justin

All-Star Squadron: The First Year Review (But Not Really, More of an Excuse To Ask Questions)

So I have been reading through All-Star Squadron, starting from #1. In the 1980’s, I read about 30 issues, but the other 35 have been sitting there begging me to read them -- for a good 30 years. You know what I mean: you have stacks of comics, new ones, but you have a whole bunch you bought years ago that you want to get to,... but life happens.

It’s been a fun read so far: Roy Thomas spinning yarn about Pearl Harbour, the early days of World War II, FDR hanging out with Winston Churchill, while Atom and Hawkman pal around with the world leaders. The art started out with Rich Buckler, and moved into Adrian Gonzalez, but all of the issues feature the inking of Jerry Ordway, and his work just shines through. To me, Jerry Ordway is THE Golden Age of comics, and that’s just my truth.

panel from All-Star Squadron #3 (1981)

Roy Thomas decided to use lesser known heroes, to replace more known Justice Society of America members. Johnny Quick was a stand-in for the Flash, Liberty Belle was a stand-in for Wonder Woman. Those two made sense. Then he had Robotman be a stand-in for Green Lantern. Robotman was created by Jerry Siegel, who also created the Spectre and the Star-Spangled Kid. That’s kind of nuts, because all three of those still play a role in DC today. I think Robotman is a perfect stand-in for Superman, and Air Wave would have been a good stand-in for Green Lantern. Energy powers, and Air Waves' name in the 40s was Larry Jordan and in the 80’s he was retconned to be related to Hal Jordan. This leads me to my first question.

1. Why was Robotman used as a stand-in for Green Lantern? I wish I could ask Roy Thomas, but anyone who may have seen an interview with Roy about the topic, I would like more information.

panel from All-Star Squadron #1 (1981)

The first three issues of All-Star Squadron focus on time traveling Per Degaton and his team of villains that he picked out through different time periods. He brought my favorite, Solomon Grundy, to 1941, all the way from 1947!!!!! And then he got Wotan (who is like Aleister Crowley, kind of), Sky Pirate, who is a pirate but for planes, and Professor Zodiac, who looks funny, but is an Alchemist. So they do the 'super-hero vs super-villain' stuff, and the All-Stars win.

In issue 4, they go to see the aftermath of Pearl Harbor and we get a strong reactionary page, where they show the All-Stars with their jaws dropped. Even Spectre -- who is God’s angel of vengeance -- was moved. Good stuff by Roy Thomas -- really humanizing everyone. So they fight some loser named Dragon King, who maybe showed up again, maybe. The first of these evil villains who are all weird Axis Powers guys. Issue #5 were some Nazis trying to blow up the Statue of Liberty and issue #6 was some Aztec Zombie who had some connection to the Hawks and their ancient weapon/reincarnation gimmick. Honestly, it wasn’t as captivating as the first issues. Then it’s the holidays, and there’s this villain -- Baron Blitzkreig -- who is a Nazi Dr. Doom. I enjoyed his story and such. There was a lot of concentration camp stuff in these issues, and it was pretty powerful. There was a time in the 80's where DC comics was definitely looking to push boundaries.

Ok, so now we are going to get to my second question. In issue # 10, some weird alien invades the planet and takes all the All-Stars out. There’s a cool Joe Kubert cover with the All-Stars hanging on the Alien as he leaves. Robotman, Libery Belle, and Johnny Quick are all attacking him, and he’s very “whatever” about it, grasping Hawkwoman and taking her on his ship.

Ok, so get this: there’s this scientist who was Hawkman’s very first villain in the 40s. He is reincarnated too, like Hawkman and Hawkwoman. But now he’s an evil scientist because entertainment was always worried about innovation. So this evil scientist (his name is Dr. Hastor, not important) reveals that the Alien is just his creation, as is the Spaceship the Alien is in, and he’s going to take over the world with it. Simple enough, right?

In issue #12 he reveals his plan. Cover dated August 1982. Now follow this: there is this good-looking scientist who is named Dr. Napier, blonde guy, who visits Dr. Hastor and tells him a great war is coming. A great war that he can predict because he had a formula that predicts it. So this blonde scientist knew exactly the kind of world war that would happen just by using his intelligence. Still with me? The blonde scientist then gets a bunch of scientists together on a secret island, slowly having them disappear so that no one would notice. What are they doing on the island? Why, they are building a fake spaceship and creating a fake alien, which will have a fake invasion, which will then be so bad, that it will bring the world together and stop the NEXT great war.

IS THIS NOT THE PLOT TO A HUGE PART OF THE WATCHMEN? This issue was published four years before The Watchmen. Now don’t get me wrong, Alan Moore is a genius of geniuses, but this seems very derivative. I know [former President of the USA] Ronald Reagan made some speeches talking about the concept of aliens bringing the world together, but… here is my second question.

2. Is this a plot device that was used before this? Does this come from someone else? Some old Serial?

Just curious. Creators always borrow from other creators, I just want to know if this exact plot device came from something older. Thanks for reading.

That infamous alien creature from The Watchmen

Mark Belkin

Reggie Francia interviews Scott Shaw! at the 2017 Silicon Valley Comic Con

How could anyone reading DC comics in the early 80s forget the Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew ongoing series that ran until 1983? You probably saw it previewed in a DC comic (either as a house ad or an insert), and were immediately drawn to it. If not, you had probably seen references and hints about Captain Carrot in the last 30 years of DCU continuity. We've always wanted to sit down with the creators of the series -- Roy Thomas and Scott Shaw -- and ask about what happened to the series, why did it die out and will it ever see a revival. Thankfully, Reggie Francia had the opportunity to do just that at the 2017 Silicon Valley Comic Con on April 21st. Reggie asked some pretty engaging questions and got Scott Shaw! talking, and, well... we'll let you just go ahead and read the rest...

Reggie: We know that you were a big fan of Jack Kirby when you were growing up. You did some Saturday morning cartoon work (Hanna-Barbera). You were the manager of a comic book shop in L.A.?

Scott: Not in that order, but yes, those are all true. [laughs]

Reggie: Your first Marvel Comics work was a What If idea you pitched to Roy Thomas while he was in your shop?

Scott: That was not my first, but it was one of my firsts. At the same time, I was working on the Hanna-Barbera comics that Marvel was publishing [1978's Laff-A-Lympics]. So I think those actually came a little bit before...

Reggie: ..and this was the "What If The Spider Had Been Bitten By A Radioactive Human?" story from 1978's What If v1 #8?

"What if the spider had been bitten by a radioactive human?" story from What If v1 #8 (1978). Illustrated by Scott Shaw!

Scott: Yes, and the radioactive human was a friend of mine from high school -- Roger Freedman -- who became a physicist. I figured he was the perfect guy to be the scientist to become radioactive. He actually now writes a lot of very heavy material on physics, but he used to letter my comics. So he's very proud that he's in a Marvel comic.

Reggie: From what I've heard, Captain Carrot was ALMOST going to be a Marvel Comics feature...

Scott: It was when Roy had it long before I was involved. He and a fella named Sam Grainger -- who was an excellent cartoonist, although at Marvel he mainly (in the 80s) worked as an inker -- but he did a comic called The Sentinels for Charlton Comics that's one of my favorites (because it looks more like the way I'd draw super-heroes, it's very cartoon-y). Anyways, he and Roy had come up with this idea of this thing called Captain Carrot, and since they were both at Marvel at the time (and this was years before I first met Roy), but they were never able to sell it. So I didn't even see the thing until years after Captain Carrot was published. So mine wasn't really based on it, it was just the name.

The Sentinels from Pete Cannon - Thunderbolt #55 (1966). Charlton Comics. Art by Sam Grainger

   

Reggie: So it wasn't because of Roy Thomas and Jim Shooter having a disagreement that it never happened?

Scott: I couldn't tell ya, but I don't think so. I don't think that had anything to do with it. They did have disagreements, but I don't remember Roy ever saying anything about that [being the reason it was] cancelled.

Reggie: So was Captain Carrot basically DC's attempt at kick-starting the 'funny animal' genre again? It was also a parody feature akin to something you'd find in MAD magazine. Was this part of DC's attempt to reach the pre-teen market?

Scott: More than anything, it was DC's attempt to get some new characters on Saturday morning animation. Because I had been working at Hanna-Barbera. Roy and I actually had met at some of the early comiccons (because I was one of the kids who helped start them). but we really started to get to know each when I started working at a comic book shop near Hanna-Barbera. and he came in there and we became friends that way. That's how I got the job on the 'Man-Spider' story.

Captain Carrot -- by that time I was pretty seasoned in animation --  and DC wanted to do a comic that could be made into a cartoon show. So initially, it was not Captain Carrot -- it was Super Squirrel and the Just'a Lotta Animals. Roy and I did a pitch, and I did a two-page thing, and they said "we don't want characters based on existing properties -- we want new characters that have no ties to Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman". So then we came up with the Captain Carrot characters, and I turned in designs, and then Joe Orlando went over my designs. In fact, there's an upcoming issue of Back Issue Magazine that'll be the first time Joe Orlando drawings of the Zoo Crew will be published. He took my drawings and made them a little more exaggerated.

Just'a Lotta Animals as seen in Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew v1 #14 (1983). Illustrated by Scott Shaw!

Then it turned out DC decided that they didn't want me to do it, they wanted Joe Staton to do it. They went to Joe Staton, and Joe said "I know Scott's stuff, he'd be much better for you guys". So then Roy re-convinced them "Scott works in the studios -- he knows what they want". That's how I got the job. At the same time, I was still doing work for the studios on the side.

The main thing they wanted was a show. The second thing they wanted -- Roy and I, at least, wanted to make it funny like the early Mad Magazine. The other thing I brought to it -- I had actually done underground comix before I had did any of that stuff -- and although I wasn't, like, this recent X-Men artist that was added little hidden messages into the backgrounds, I just wrote it from a point of view that, now, when I talk to people who were kids when it was coming out, they say that it was almost like reading an underground comic for kids. I didn't put anything dirty in it, but I did put stuff that was just kinda weird and not what you'd see in like a Harvey comic or Disney comic. So I'm glad that kids liked 'em. In fact, for a long time, it was really hard to find copies of Captain Carrot that hadn't been just 'read to pieces'. They'd always turn up in the 'quarter box', because the cover would barely be on. I loved seeing that because it meant that the kids actually read 'em.  

Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew #6 (1982) - pencilled by Scott Shaw! and inked by Al Gordon

Reggie: Marvel Tails -- first appearance of Spider-Ham -- first hit the shelves in Nov 1983 (about the time the last issue of DC's Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew was being published). Was this a coincidence, or was this Marvel's attempt to grab up your readers? (Peter Porker, The Spectacular Spider-Ham, published under Marvel's Star Comics imprint, only lasted seventeen issues from 1985 to 1987.)

Scott: Y'know, I don't really know. I kinda doubt it. There are a lot of examples of that sort of coincidence where something's kind of just 'out there in the ether': Swamp Thing/Man-Thing, X-Men/Doom Patrol, there are other examples, too. So, I don't know if that has anything [to do with it].
The thing I was kinda disappointed about it was, though -- and this sounds kinda John Byrne-ish because he has this kinda mentality -- he criticized Captain Carrot by saying "Captain Carrot wouldn't name himself after a carrot". It's like, "well, that's where he gets his powers, John". But it always bothered me that Spider-Ham was named after a cooked pig. It's like, shouldn't he have been Spider-Pig or Spider-Hog?

I thought Man-Spider and his world was... I mean, the guy that drew a lot of issues of Spider-Ham was a guy named Steve Mellor, and I LOVED his stuff. I would've liked to have seen what HE would have done with Captain Carrot. The Spider-Ham stuff never really struck me as being fun or clever enough. Well, I'm not putting it down, but I felt like my version of the animal characters I'd already come up with some that were funny -- they didn't need to recreate it. But of course, I probably wouldn't have drawn it, either. [laughs]

I couldn't have done BOTH at the same time.

Marvel Tales #1 (1983) - Steve Mellor art

Reggie: So we've established that Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew was originally being prepped for the Saturday Morning cartoon treatment. Is it true that at some point it was almost optioned as a cartoon?

Scott: It WAS optioned as a cartoon. In fact, I was paid TWICE -- two years in a row -- when ABC wanted to do a Captain Carrot series. The first time, no one asked Roy nor myself to participate in the pitch -- and I saw examples of it -- and strangely enough the presentation was written by Jeffrey Scott (who was out main writer on Muppet Babies about a year after that, and that was at Marvel Productions, oddly enough). Anyways, so I got my payment -- now I only owned 10% of Captain Carrot -- and I got $2500. So I don't know how much DC made. but they [ABC] were paying good money for options. But they decided not to go with it.

So the next season they wanted to option it again... and again, Roy and I were NOT consulted. But this time it was really weird: they wanted the Zoo Crew to have a side-kick of Wonder Woman.

Yes, that was my reaction, too.

I think they were just trying to figure out -- it's like maybe DC wanted Wonder Woman for a show, maybe the case was like Hanna-Barbera, where sometimes they'd take two different presentations to a network meeting and the network would say "oh, we like both of these shows" and suddenly we'd wind up with Casper the Ghost in the future with two lady space CHIPs. (I worked on that horrible show, by the way.) But that's how it came to be. A lot of shows in the 80s were made that way. So I think the networks liked [it]... they thought they were being creative. It actually resulted in a lot of REALLY horrible shows. I think this was kind of the case.

Reggie: Is it true that Roy Thomas changed his car's license plate to ZOO CREW after the title was announced?

Scott: Yes. Yeah, Roy was a very playful guy. He also had a 'Roger Rabbit' rabbit that was nibbling on the legs of their coffee table.

Reggie: Captain Carrot was also meant to unite all of the licensed DC comics funny animal characters of the past (ex: Peter Porkchops, Dodo and the Frog, The Terrific Whatsit, etc). Why did the funny-animal comic start to die in popularity?

Two Funny Animal features from DC's Funny Stuff #72 (1953). Source: http://www.bigblogcomics.com/2010/09/funny-stuff-no-72-may-june-1953.html


Scott: You mean back in the 1950s? I think they had just been -- y'know, after World War II super-heroes weren't as popular, they had new genres. Funny Animals weren't a new genre, but with everybody having, like, the Disney license and all these other studio licenses, there was just a proliferation of them. Then at that point, Romance comics (although they've existed for years) suddenly became a BIG deal, Archie comics became a BIG deal. I think it's just the way comics used to be -- different genres would be more popular than others. Now it's been the super-hero [genre] as the dominant (at least in mainstream) since 1960 or so, and we don't remember what it was like to see [others]. If you're in the 70s and 80s [comics], look at those subscription ads, only about a third of the titles are super-heroes from DC (and probably Marvel the same way when you think about the Horror comics, the Westerns, and there were like two or three Sgt Fury spin-offs at the time). I think Funny Animals just probably played themselves out where they were all canceling each other out on the newsstand.  

1974 DC Comics house ad

Reggie: You started as penciller of Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew, but starting with issue #9 you became the scripter as well as artist, and eventually became the writer of the series, and then you left abruptly after issue #18. a regular creative team was planned by issue #20, but the series ends with issue #20. What happened there?

Scott: I wasn't delivering work on time. DC wanted the stuff to be more and more involved. And quite honestly, they kept promising me a page rate that never happened -- so I was having to take more and more stuff in animation. Roy was very patient with me. It was not a matter of flaking out, but I had to be able to pay my rent. So I left the book abruptly -- I was very upset about it -- but I felt that I deserved to be let go.

Quite honestly -- and this sounds very egotistical -- but I'm a TRUE cartoonist. I think funny. Maybe people don't THINK I'm funny, but I mean that's what I'm trained to do. Every attempt to do Captain Carrot since I went off the book, they either look like regular super-heroes that have to have animal heads, they're trying to make them 'serious'. They had Captain Carrot recently meet Harley Quinn and I felt bad, but the inker showed him to me at a convention and I said "he looks like a maniac, he looks like he wants to kill somebody". That's not what these characters are about.

Convergence: Harley Quinn #2 (2015)

Recently they did this thing were he had a realistic rabbit head.   I couldn't figure THAT out. They did a thing called Captain K'rot where he's like a space pirate -- he's drinking and going after women and stuff.

Threshold #3 (2013)

Again, it's like I don't understand exactly why, but DC refuses -- y'know, they did have Bill Morrison and I do a new version [Captain Carrot and the Final Ark!] and they didn't promote it at all. And then when we pitched doing more stories we were told "well, it didn't sell", and my answer was that "you didn't promote it".

Captain Carrot and the Final Ark! #1 (2007)

Quite honestly, every few years, the big companies decide "we're gonna do comics that kids like". I never said "let's do comics kids like", I said "let's do comics that kids can understand, but that older readers..." -- Carl Barks was a big influence on me, John Stanley -- all these guys who wrote kiddie comics that adults dug just as much as kids. That was always really my intention.

They don't seem to understand that the only way this ever worked is if it was funny, cute AND appealing. It doesn't have to fit into the way all super-hero comics are now, because it's not a super-hero comic -- it's a humor comic.

The thing that Roy and I -- and Dan -- I have to mention Danette Thomas, Roy's wife, was a huge influence and had lots of input. She was in our story meetings and had an equal vote to Roy and I. And she, then and now, is a wonderful lady and an asset to Roy and a really GOOD writer. She never gets enough credit.    

If I did it now, I'd probably cut down on the puns. Not eliminate them, but just not go so 'double down' on them constantly. Unfortunately, there are very few comics out there now that are trying be funny --  at least in a cartoon way. They might have super-heroes trying to be funny, but it's still a super-hero comic. We treat our characters 'serious plots, silly characters' and that way everyone got (what I thought) the best of both worlds.

Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew #8 (1982) - illustrated by Scott Shaw!

Reggie: I tried watching recent kiddie cartoons -- I don't know, I grew up in the 80s -- and I just don't 'get it'. Some are, I think, too serious and the creators feel the kids should understand them already or I don't know...

Scott: I think that when you're writing for children, the first thing you need to do is think "I'm NOT going to write for children". You need to understand certain things -- kids don't understand flashback sequences or sophisticated story elements. Smart kids will look up words they don't understand. Smart kids will go out of their way -- if you're talking about something they've never heard about -- they'll figure it out. All the best children's comics NEVER catered down to kids, they've treated them like "maybe you don't know everything yet, but you're not stupid".

Current cartoon shows, they're not for our generation. You could be my son (I don't know how old you are), but I'm 65 years old. Even so, neither of us are the age group for current cartoon shows. I was talking to somebody the other day: I know that the new Teen Titans show is VERY popular -- the designs are cute -- but I can't stand it. I don't think I'd enjoy working on it. I realize now it's because I'm just not in touch with that anymore. If we were doing new Flintstones cartoons, absolutely.  I worked on Duck Dodgers -- that seemed to work pretty well.

I do like some new shows. I really like Gravity Falls, I really like The Regular Show (even thought it's a complete rip-off of Bill & Ted). I like Steven Universe. There are shows now that are NOT annoying, on the other hand, I've worked on the most annoying cartoon show of all time: Annoying Orange. Sooner or later, I'll have to serve my time for that.

Reggie: It's kind of interesting that you weren't involved in the Oz-Wonderland War trilogy -- Carol Lay illustrated this series (she was an inker on the last few issues of the original Captain Carrot series), and Joey Cavelieri wrote it (he also wrote the last issue of the original CapatainCarrot series) -- since you DID follow-up with a "Whatever happened to Captain Carrot" feature in 2006's Teen Titans v3, and then 2007's Captain Carrot and the Final Ark (a Countdown tie-in). Clearly, the character is still close to your heart. Have you seen Captain Carrot in Grant Morrison's Multiversity?

Scott: Nah, when I saw the cover and the weird rabbit head, I thought "well, this isn't mine".

Reggie: Is this pretty much the end of Captain Carrot as a 'funny animal' as we know it?

Scott: As long as Warner Bros. exists, they will find any excuse to bring back characters that they own. A lot of people aren't aware of it, but they own all of the Hanna-Barbera characters. That's why we're getting these stupid comic book reversions of the Flintstones. Somebody at the top of Warner Bros., or in the middle even, is saying "why aren't we using these characters anymore? why aren't these characters popular?". That will happen with EVERY character DC ever does.

The Flintstones #1 (2016)

When Captain Carrot and the Final Ark came out, there was some executive at Warner Bros. or DC who'd never heard of the characters, and her question was (when they got their monthly stack of comics) "why aren't we doing toys of these characters?" Well, that was one of the original plans -- not only a cartoon show, but toys. Well I've designed toys. I've designed toys for Todd McFarlane's company (with the Hanna-Barbera characters). So I was contacted by somebody from DC Direct who said "They want to do Captain Carrot toys" and I said "I'd like to design those Captain Carrot toys". We were in serious talks, but no papers have been signed. Then he called me and said "the toys have been bumped from the schedule because they need to have toys for The Spirit movie and the Justice League movie" (the one that never was made).

Reggie: And we know what happened with The Spirit movie...

Scott: The Spirit movie was just horrible, and the other one didn't exist. But they never put the stuff back on the schedule. So..

Y'know, they will always figure out ways.  I heard that Space Cabbie turned up in some recent DC project -- maybe a cartoon show? I forget what it was. I mean, that's a DC property from the '50s that only old guys like me even remember.

Space Cabbie then and now 

Reggie: I think I read about him in a Green Lantern issue recently...

Scott: Yeah, but my point is... as long as they own this stuff, they'll never let it die. What they will do, however, is try to change it so it's not the version Roy and I did, so they don't have to pay us or our families any money -- because I own 10%, Roy owns 5% and Gerry Conway owns 5% (that was more of a deal between him and Roy than me).

Reggie: One last thing... this was a question from one of our twitter followers: "I'd like to hear your take on the current environment for comics and if you think they'll be hurt by the popularity of comic book characters in other media. In other words, will the explosion of movies/tv/whatever hurt the books?"

Scott: My opinion is, is that as long as they are making a lot cartoon shows and superheroes about existing comic book characters, more and more children are interested in comic books, graphic novels... y'know,.. the source material. They may not be interested in old comics, but if the companies put out material for them that's good -- that's not just junk -- but I mean find guys that understand how to write well for kids. I think there will always be room for these kinds of books (maybe not talking animals, necessarily). Quite honestly, anthropomorphic is the term that is now used, I still don't quite understand it -- I guess that when it's serious it's 'anthropomorphic', and if it's funny it's 'funny animal'. (Captain Carrot was both, so I don't know what you'd call that.) But I don't think any of this will ever hurt the comics field.

I think that we don't ever have to worry about that. I think what we have to worry about is losing children as a target audience. I'm part of that generation, really -- but when comic fans took over the comic business. I think an awful lot of comic fans were tired of being called 'babies' because they read comics when they were kids, so they're embarrassed to be publishing [comics targeted towards kids]. I mean Disney owns Marvel, yet Marvel doesn't publish any Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck comics? That's crazy! They have IDW publish them. IDW is a fine publisher, but Disney owns Marvel... why aren't they taking the risk of themselves?

Anyways, things will change. Things always change. Maybe the comic business will have to collapse and rebuild itself from the ground up with children again. I don't know. I doubt that will happen with all of these movies, but sooner of later there's going to be too many movies. Sooner or later all of this geek fandom is going to crash. But y'know kids will always love talking animals. I mean, we'll all be dead and buried and there will still be new Scooby Doo cartoons. As much as I hate Scooby Doo, he will outlive us all. [laughs]

Reggie: Thank you, Mr Shaw. We really really appreciate you giving us this interview.

-Reggie

Reggie Francia got hooked on comics back in the '80s because his parents thought it would help with his reading skills. It did help with his reading skills, but it also turned him into a comic book junkie. Being an E.R. nurse, medical devices in comics drawn incorrectly still irks him.

Extra:
Do you want to read more about Funny Animal comics? Try The Big Blog of Kid's Comics. Tell 'em DC in the 80s sent you. ;)